Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 06:22:49 -0600 Fri, 1 Dec 1995 7:22:44 -0500 (EST) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu From: "Waldo E. Meeks" Subject: Re: Honda parts prices...ouch! At 06:50 PM 11/30/95 -0500, you wrote: Wal-Mart has a Champion 12BS sealed battery, marked for the PC, for >$49.94. > Thanks Dana. Sounds good. Check East Coast Parts Warehouse (800)544-4814 or (703)699-4236 for the filter. Let me know what you find. Hope to meet you soon. Waldo GSU ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 09:54:46 -0500 From: JeffHO@aol.com To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Subject: Re: What is the best all around bike mag? Would somebody please post subscription info for Motorcycle Consumer News (price and phone #)? Many thanks. Jeff <> with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 01 Dec 1995 08:13:46 -0700 ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Fri, 01 Dec 1995 08:19:53 -0700 From: Neill Thompson To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Subject: Re: What is the best all around bike mag? -Reply Not to gloat but check the web site. It's in there. In case you don't have web access, the phone number is: (714) 855-8822 >>> 12/01/95 07:54am >>> Would somebody please post subscription info for Motorcycle Consumer News (price and phone #)? Many thanks. Jeff <> Comments: Authenticated sender is ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: "John Palfery" To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 10:27:20 +0000 Subject: Re: PC800 at -30F Priority: normal This ones for Juan and Cory -- How does the plastic stand up in the kind of temperatues you guys experience in the winter. Can you even touch the PC without the plastic shattering !! Do you store the bikes in a heated space ? John ________________________________________________________ John Palfery jpalfer@mail.atw.fullfeed.com ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: "J. Burack" Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 12:20:33 -0500 To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Cc: lawyer@pipeline.com Subject: Hawaii and San Diego On Thu, Nov 30, 1995 7:46:12 PM at Ronald E. Pacholec wrote: >Yea, Juan and Neill, I know what you guys are talking about with this cold >weather. I rode back home from the gym last night and almost froze my butt >off! Last night we hit a low temp of 76 deg here in Honolulu, and riding >in that kind of weather with only a tank top and shorts sure does get cold! >I need to get a high windshield to block the chill. Does anybody know if >I can get one with a sun tint so I don't burn and peal all the time? There must be *something* bad about being in Hawaii -- come'on I need something to make me feel better! :-) In all seriousness, I visiting San Diego area for the first time x-mas to new Years week. I'm seeking suggestions about places/persons to see, food etc., and any advice whatsoever. Unfortunately, I'll be PC'less, but if anyone knows if it's if it's possible to beg, borrow, or steal (or rent) a bike in that area, that would be wonderful. - Jeff ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: "J. Burack" Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 12:29:52 -0500 To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Cc: lawyer@pipeline.com Subject: Web site URL request On Fri, Dec 1, 1995 8:19:53 AM at Neill Thompson wrote: >Not to gloat but check the web site. It's in there. It would be great if the URL for the web site could get added to a footer tag for the list, or at least appended when a reference is made in a message. I lose the bookmark everytime my machine crashes (my computer, not my PC :-) , and have to search through Yahoo. Just a very minor point, but I know that there many other people who also have the URL hopelessly buried amidst their backups :-), but are too embarrassed to ask again....... 01 Dec 1995 11:49:32 -0600 (CST) ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Fri, 01 Dec 1995 11:48:48 -0600 (CST) From: kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu (Kent Polk) Subject: Re: Hawaii and San Diego (from "J. Burack" ) (at Fri, 01 Dec 1995 12:20:33 -0500) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Hi J. (J. Burack), in <199512011720.MAA23740@pipe8.nyc.pipeline.com> on Dec 01 you wrote: > There must be *something* bad about being in Hawaii -- come'on I need > something to make me feel better! :-) Let's see. It's supposed to be in the 80's today in San Antonio. Up from the cold front that passed through a couple of days ago. I had to dig the liner for my leather jacket out of the closet. Does that help any? And we have fabulous chili/salsa/bbq to keep ya warm on the inside... Drop by here and I'll take ya along with me for my weekly oil change and radiator flushing at Lupita's. That's on Thursdays. You'll feel lot's better. :^) :^) > In all seriousness, I visiting San Diego area for the first time x-mas to > new Years week. I'm seeking suggestions about places/persons to see, food > etc., and any advice whatsoever. Unfortunately, I'll be PC'less, but if Roads, Roads, Roads. There are all sorts of fabulous backroads around San Diego. Get you a map and find all the little squiggly lines that run through the mountains. And certainly go up Mt. Palomar... That road is great fun. I think I lost a full 1/8" off my peg nuts there. But be careful as those turns are decreasing radius turns... (Fair warning) Sightseeing... I think we went sightseeing... At least I'm pretty sure we went sightseeing, but can't seem to remember anything but the roads and summit views and my camera only had pictures looking off of winding cliff roads. And of course San Diego is where I did my famous award-winning cliff dive. Great Place. :^) Kent Polk: Southwest Research Institute Internet : kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 01 Dec 1995 14:51:17 -0700 ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Fri, 01 Dec 1995 14:57:16 -0700 From: Neill Thompson To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Subject: Juan in AZ Juan in AZ? Really!!! Very cool. When? For how long? Cruise America rental? Shadows, Wings...Accomodations? Group hug? Seriously, what's the deal. Since I'm not sure that the rest of the list wants to hear about all this, perhaps we can go off-line with this stuff. I think there are now about 4 AZ list subscribers. Juan and the AZ list subscribers (or other interested parties), drop me a line and I'll try to coordinate a get together at this end if there is any interest. Contact me at: thompson@trg.trglink.com ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 14:52:40 -1000 To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu From: reap@pixi.com (Ronald E. Pacholec) Subject: Re: Hawaii and San Diego >There must be *something* bad about being in Hawaii -- come'on I need >something to make me feel better! :-) Well Jeff, there are a few things like: eating cold poi (tarro root that tastes like wall paper paste with vinegar); skinny dipping on a full moon (if you're in the wrong place the territorial fish can nibble); and running out of island when you get your bike up to cruising speed. I don't think that we have even 60 miles of highway in the whole state. But life here is pretty good, and the sensual experiences you get out on a bike, especially at sunset or along the ocean on a full moon are nothing short of exquisite! There are some truly wonderful things to see here, especially on a bike. So If you ever come over, let me know and I'll help you plan it out. Oh, and if anyone's coming from the Southwest, bring the chilies. Spices, especially hot, are unknown to the Polynesian food. Aloha and stay warm! Ron ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 19:28:19 -0500 From: HTBIII@aol.com To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Subject: Re: HOT GRIPS/OIL LEAK In a message dated 95-11-27 17:55:01 EST, Dave Gross wrote: > anyone else have experience with those HOT GRIP thingies? My hands >are just too damn cold all the time. I have been using Hot Grips, which I purchased from Motorcycle Accessory Warehouse, for about a year now (installed last thanksgiving). They are a substantial improvement on cold mornings (I live in the D.C. area), although they do not totally cure my cold finger_tips_ problem. I ride every day, throughout the winter (unless there is snow or ice on the roads), so morning temp.s are often enough below freezing that I think of these things as a necessity. It's like holding a hot cup of coffee in each hand: your palms and the insides of your fingers have a nice warm feeling. I have also found that thinner gloves are better for transmitting the heat. I had been using thick, multi-layer ski gloves when it got really cold, and they seemed pretty good at insulating. Just this week I bought a pair of Motoport cold-weather gloves (nylon with Thinsulate lining) which are much thinner (more efficient insulators); my hands heat up much quicker and stay warm a little longer. I think the ideal solution might be to have electric grips with those covers that you stick your hands into that cover the grips and clutch/brake levers (what are those things called, anyway?). Has anyone tried that combination? Juan A. Goula later wrote that: >>Installation is not easy, but worth the trouble. I'm no mechanic (to say the least!), but I thought installation was easier than I expected; I did have some wiring problems (see above: I'm no mechanic...) but trial and error eventually resolved them. I still haven't gotten around to doing it yet, but I recommend you wire them to a _switched_ power source; I have more than once run the battery down by forgetting to turn the switch off. whoops! Tom Byron htbiii@aol.com ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 19:28:47 -0500 From: HTBIII@aol.com To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Subject: Re: Re: PC800- Montana Nat'l Spe In a message dated 95-11-29 18:07:00 EST, George Krobel wrote: >I don't know how you managed to get 35 m/g, but taking the foot from the >brake >pedal - when you are moving forward - may help little, unloading the lead >bricks, etc. Hey! That's not necessary at all. I commute on my PC every day (a fair amount of stop & go traffic) and routinely get about 37 mpg. I am _not_ riding stupidly or ignorantly. Even under prime conditions (under 70 mph on flat interstates), I get only about 50 mpg. Careful whom you make fun of. _You_ might be the abberation (although I wouldn't mind having your gas milage results ). >To criticize Kent is easy, but I read lots of very good stuff from him on >these pages and although he may exaggerate a bit, he knows his PC I don't think any criticism of Kent was intended, only awe and good-natured envy. I agree: like many frequent contributors on this list, Kent is a valuable resource to all us PC owners (although I'm real intrigued by recent traffic suggesting Kent's bike is a lot different from the rest of ours). Tom Byron htbiii@aol.com ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: David_McCarthy-RXYH90@email.sps.mot.com Date: 1 Dec 95 19:25:00 -0600 To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Subject: Fuel consumption In town: 40 - 43 Highway: 50 - 53 keeping it under 65 mph Comments: Authenticated sender is ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: "Michael S. Keller" To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 23:14:43 -0600 Subject: Re: HOT GRIPS/OIL LEAK Priority: normal > In a message dated 95-11-27 17:55:01 EST, Dave Gross wrote: > > > anyone else have experience with those HOT GRIP thingies? My > > hands > >are just too damn cold all the time. > > I have been using Hot Grips, which I purchased from Motorcycle > Accessory Warehouse, for about a year now (installed last > thanksgiving). They are a substantial improvement on cold mornings > (I live in the D.C. area), although they do not totally cure my cold > finger_tips_ problem. I ride every day, throughout the winter > (unless there is snow or ice on the roads), so morning temp.s are > often enough below freezing that I think of these things as a > necessity. It's like holding a hot cup of coffee in each hand: your > palms and the insides of your fingers have a nice warm feeling. I > have also found that thinner gloves are better for transmitting the > heat. I had been using thick, multi-layer ski gloves when it got > really cold, and they seemed pretty good at insulating. Just this > week I bought a pair of Motoport cold-weather gloves (nylon with > Thinsulate lining) which are much thinner (more efficient > insulators); my hands heat up much quicker and stay warm a little > longer. I think the ideal solution might be to have electric grips > with those covers that you stick your hands into that cover the > grips and clutch/brake levers (what are those things called, > anyway?). Has anyone tried that combination? Hippo Hands. I too am curious about such a combination. What about the bar end weights? Did they interfere with installation? -Michael [AB5EL] mskeller@ionet.net michael.keller@paranet.com ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 01:31:55 -0500 From: Dentman711@aol.com To: pc800@hpc.uh.edu Subject: Clutch problem solution #1 I don't really know the solution. However, I do know some causes. As the plates attempt to slide together, as you let out the clutch lever, they must slide in the basket along a thin section notched out of the basket for the tabs on the friction plates. O.K. this sounds to coplicated already so just buy a new PC. Actually the solution is to remove the basket and very carefully remove the chatter marks that may have formed from the tabs hitting the notches. If I have not made this explanation plain enough E me and I will try harder. This is a very common problem on Motocross bikes because we tend to through the things into motion while under full power. Good luck Rick Fisher Dentman711@AOL.COM ***************************************************************** *1995 Honda Pacific Coast 800cc / WARNING: NON MOTORCYCLE INFO FOLLOWS... *1992 Kawasaki 750SX Highly "stock" ;-) / 1985 & 86 Kawasaki 550 (JET SKIS) *Wife & Son / 2 dogs & 1 cat ***************************************************************** ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu (Kent Polk) Subject: Resources (from HTBIII@aol.com) (at Fri, 01 Dec 1995 19:28:47 -0500) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Date: Sat, 2 Dec 95 01:33:28 CST Hi HTBIII (HTBIII), in <951201192846_41155095@emout04.mail.aol.com> on Dec 01 you wrote: > valuable resource to all us PC owners (although I'm real intrigued by recent > traffic suggesting Kent's bike is a lot different from the rest of ours). Let's see what's different: The front/rear suspension, the front tire, the airhorns, the throttle lock. (Not to mention the pegs, centerstand and crashbar covers and that it has spend an unwarranted number of miles with the needle at redline. :^) Forgot to check that side-Phillips theory tonight. Got my water supply tubing in for the house today and I've been a real busy boy, sweating lots of copper. Hoping to get the house ready to move in by Christmas... --- BTW, I got a flyer today from Western Auto. Fiamm airhorms on sale for $20. not sure if they are the same as what I put on, but my wife's Mazda sure has a puny horn on it. Maybe Santa'll bring her a set for Christmas in addition to the house. Best price on them I've ever seen (hint) Kent Polk: Southwest Research Institute Internet : kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu (Kent Polk) Subject: Criticism (from HTBIII@aol.com) (at Fri, 01 Dec 1995 19:28:47 -0500) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Date: Sat, 2 Dec 95 01:43:22 CST > In a message dated 95-11-29 18:07:00 EST, George Krobel wrote: > > >To criticize Kent is easy, but I read lots of very good stuff from him on You guys just don't know how lucky you are that Foghorn doesn't know about this maillist... I have to make sure he's busy in the ole henhouse before I sneak back here to respond. All hell'ld break loose if he knew what I was up to. Hint: Better whisper when calling my name. :^) Kent Polk: Southwest Research Institute Internet : kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: 02 Dec 95 14:38:00 EST From: "Dana L. Sawyer" <71430.340@compuserve.com> To: HondaPacificCoastOwners Subject: 30% discount on parts ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: VR2XVI, INTERNET:pckwong@hkuxa.hku.hk TO: (unknown), INTERNET:PC800@SINA.HPC.UH.EDU DATE: 11/24/95 8:52 PM RE: PC800: 30% discount on parts by Post-Office.UH.EDU (PMDF V5.0-5 #8380) 24 Nov 1995 19:40:57 -0600 (CST) 24 Nov 1995 19:40:01 -0600 24 Nov 1995 19:39:58 -0600 25 Nov 1995 09:37:52 +0800 ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Sat, 25 Nov 1995 09:37:51 +0000 (WST) From: pckwong@hkuxa.hku.hk (VR2XVI) Subject: 30% discount on parts at Nov 22, 95 10:25 am To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Reply-to: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Hi all! Finally I made the Milpitas Honda setup a 30% discount for me on parts and any purchase, and I think Andy, the owner of Milpitas Honda also wish to offer the same discount to you netters, and they're quite handy to reach, just mail to : hondamil@aol.com I have no connection with this dealer except a relation between customer and supplier. -- ***************************************************************************** * Philips Wong, VR2XVI <-- HAM '84 HONDA GL1200A <-- Wow! * * PCA420 <-- Royal HK Gold Wing Aspencade * * Aux. Police '90 HONDA PC800 <-- New toy! * * 101177 <-- GWRRA # HONDA CBX750 <-- Police bike * * Police Training School taught : YAMAHA 650 <-- Police bike * * " I have the honor to be, Sir, your YAMAHA 250 <-- Police bike * * obedient servant! " '89 MITSUBISHI <-- For fun & * * L300 4WD for sale! * ***************************************************************************** I contacted Honda of Milpitas and received a reply from Andy. His price for a PC800 air filter is $29.99 plus $10 for ground UPS anywhere in the continental US (sorry about that, Cory and Juan!). The telephone number is 408/263-6060. That will save me about $19 over the price for one from my local dealer (including 5% S.C. sales tax.) No sales tax on out-of-state orders (the dealership is in California.) I hope that this will help some of you folks! I'm ordering an air filter ASAP! Happy holidaze! DANA SAWYER ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: 02 Dec 95 14:37:54 EST From: "Dana L. Sawyer" <71430.340@compuserve.com> To: HondaPacificCoastOwners Subject: Re: Air filter for a '90 PC 800 ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: INTERNET:HONDAMIL@aol.com, INTERNET:HONDAMIL@aol.com TO: Dana L. Sawyer, 71430,340 DATE: 12/1/95 1:25 PM RE: Re: Air filter for a '90 PC 800 (8.6.10/5.950515) ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: 71430.340@compuserve.com; Fri, 1 Dec 1995 13:10:29 -0500 Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 13:10:29 -0500 To: 71430.340@compuserve.com Subject: Re: Air filter for a '90 PC 800 In a message dated 95-11-30 19:05:12 EST, you write: > >One of the PC800owners on the net mentioned that perhaps you would sell Honda >parts at a discount to those of us "on the net." What would an air filter >cost >for my '90 Honda Pacific Coast PC800 (include shipping, etc.)? I have 60,000 >miles on my bike, and haven't changed the air filter since about 25,000 >miles. I >looked at it recently, and it is overdue! I look forward to hearing from you. >DANA SAWYER, Founder, HSTA > > How are you doing.... 90 pc800 air filter I can do for $29.99+ shipping at $10.00 ups ground anywhere in cont US. No sales tax if shipped out Ca In stock and available Thanks Andy Honda of Milpitas 408-263-6060 ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 13:31:33 -0900 (AKST) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu From: "Juan A. Goula" Subject: HOT GRIPS At 11:14 PM 12/1/95 -0600, you wrote: >Hippo Hands. I too am curious about such a combination. What about >the bar end weights? Did they interfere with installation? There is a lady that signed on about a month ago that has that combination. She said it works pretty good but you have to set the hippo hands just so to avoid interfering with the clutch and brake levers. Bar end weights are not a problem, I used a drill hole saw to cut a 7/8" hole out the end of the grip (careful you don't cut into the resistance wires!) and a Dremel tool to grind away the knobs from the plastic throttle liner. Other than that, fairly stright forward. Juan ________________________________ Juan A. Goula School of Fisheries & Ocean Sciences University of Alaska Fairbanks AMA # 532390 \\\\ HSTA # 4995RG 1990 Honda PC800 \\\\ 1993 Arctic Cat Panther DLX ________________________________ ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 13:43:40 -0900 (AKST) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu From: "Juan A. Goula" Subject: Re: 30% discount on parts >Hi all! > >Finally I made the Milpitas Honda setup a 30% discount for me on parts and >any purchase, and I think Andy, the owner of Milpitas Honda also wish to >offer the same discount to you netters, and they're quite handy to reach, > > just mail to : hondamil@aol.com > >I have no connection with this dealer except a relation between customer >and supplier. Hello there Philips. Andy already got in touch with us, thanks. Say, it just occurred to me, did the HK Poloce Dept. retire all those bikes you have, or are you "storing" the bikes for them at no cost (he he!) : - ) Juan ________________________________ Juan A. Goula School of Fisheries & Ocean Sciences University of Alaska Fairbanks AMA # 532390 \\\\ HSTA # 4995RG 1990 Honda PC800 \\\\ 1993 Arctic Cat Panther DLX ________________________________ ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 13:53:12 -0900 (AKST) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu From: "Juan A. Goula" Subject: AZ Visit >Juan, if you plan to get as far south as Tucson, let me know and I can tell >you a bit about it. (Half the size but twice as nice as Phoenix; and the >University of Arizona just beat Arizona State in football. Sorry, Neill.) Thanks Ed. Not sure yet if we will have the time or not, but I'll keep it mind. >Temperature today was 75. About a week ago, I saw a strange looking white >fuzzy thing in the sky; wasn't sure what it was. Been completely clear ever >since,though. Ho hum. Just another day in paradise. Hmmm... must have been one of them UFO's that you saw. : - ) 75 sounds *nice*. I called the airport this morning, we are "only" 110 degrees apart. : - ( >There is a nice Arizona site on the net you might enjoy; >http://www.arizonaguide.com/ I'll check it out! Juan ________________________________ Juan A. Goula School of Fisheries & Ocean Sciences University of Alaska Fairbanks AMA # 532390 \\\\ HSTA # 4995RG 1990 Honda PC800 \\\\ 1993 Arctic Cat Panther DLX ________________________________ ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 13:58:10 -0900 (AKST) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu From: "Juan A. Goula" Subject: Re: Re[2]: Winter Gloves At 08:18 PM 11/30/95 -0600, you wrote: >Ya! But Scottsdale is the best in the west. > Now that one I'll get to check for myself! : - ) ________________________________ Juan A. Goula School of Fisheries & Ocean Sciences University of Alaska Fairbanks AMA # 532390 \\\\ HSTA # 4995RG 1990 Honda PC800 \\\\ 1993 Arctic Cat Panther DLX ________________________________ ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 14:07:37 -0900 (AKST) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu From: "Juan A. Goula" Subject: Juan in AZ At 02:57 PM 12/1/95 -0700, you wrote: >Juan in AZ? yep. > Really!!! Very cool. When? For how long? Dec 28 - Jan 5 in Lake Havasu, Jan 6 - 13 in Scottsdale >Cruise America rental? Shadows, Wings... Maybe. Perhaps a Wing since we'll be two up and the bike is expensive enough I'm sure I won't hear " let's get one for us!" from my wife : - ) >Accomodations? Taken care of, thanks. >Group hug? Ummm... Sounds like it would be more like group therapy! : - ) >Seriously, what's the deal. Since I'm not sure that the rest of the list wants to hear about all this, perhaps >we can go off-line with this stuff. Oops. I'll send directly to you next message. A get together sounds good to me though! Let me know. Juan ________________________________ Juan A. Goula School of Fisheries & Ocean Sciences University of Alaska Fairbanks AMA # 532390 \\\\ HSTA # 4995RG 1990 Honda PC800 \\\\ 1993 Arctic Cat Panther DLX ________________________________ ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Sat, 2 Dec 1995 22:42:29 -0500 From: RETREADNY@aol.com To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Subject: MCN Subscription Info Motorcycle Consumer News PO Box 420234 Palm Coast, FL 32142-0234 (904) 445-4608 Single copy price $ 4.00 US Subscriptions $ 23.97 / 12 issues. If you attend one of the bigger shows (Cycle World etc.) you can usually find their booth and save a little on the subsription. Wes St.Onge RETREADNY@aol.com Happy subscriber for about three years now ! ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: pckwong@hkuxa.hku.hk (VR2XVI) Subject: Re: 30% discount on parts To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Date: Sun, 3 Dec 95 20:19:33 WST > Hello there Philips. Andy already got in touch with us, thanks. That's good! I just want to share this to you all and save some $$$. > Say, it just occurred to me, did the HK Poloce Dept. retire all those bikes > you have, or are you "storing" the bikes for them at no cost (he he!) : - ) Mmmm, I have to make that clear, I drive those Police bikes while doing Police duties, I own NO Police bikes, 3 bikes and a van is enough, or maybe more than enough. Fortunately I'm a happy single man, no wife will let these happened. Talking about our Auxiliary Force, I noticed that auxies in the States and Canada are not carry firearms, only doing 'minor', or 'secondary' duties such as crowd control, or traffic enforcement duties. Right here in Hong Kong, we auxies are actively engaged into daily police operations, we always carry full set of equipment including firearms while on duty, have full police rights and doing exactly same kind of workings as uniformed regular officers, of course, including the work loads. Any info. about aux. Police of your County/State? I know these are nothing related to PC800s. Happy pacific coasting! -- **************************************************************************** * Philips Wong, '84 HONDA GL1200A <-- Wow! * * VR2XVI <-- HAM Gold Wing Aspencade * * PCA420 <-- Royal Hong Kong '90 HONDA PC800 white <-- Lexus 2 tone * * Aux. Police '90 HONDA PC800 red <-- Little Wing * * 101177 <-- GWRRA # Yeh I got a real wing at rear * * * * Police Training School taught : HONDA CBX750 <-- Police bike * * " I have the honor to be, Sir, YAMA Diversion 600 <-- Police bike * * your obedient servant!" YAMA SR250 <-- Police junk * * * **************************************************************************** * Will work for gas & chrome, I've an old Wing, and 2 baby Wings at home. * **************************************************************************** ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 17:50:52 -0500 From: TedJ101@aol.com To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Subject: Re: Aim high output lights? In a message dated 95-11-29 00:28:01 EST, kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu (Kent Polk) writes: >Now, how does that correlate with what the manual says? Is the >adjustment on the rear of the assembly or on the bottom as I *think* >has been stated (maybe I misread)? Or... possibly there is some Kent, Not to worry. Both the maual and my wife's bike indicate that the headlamp adjusters are on the back of the headlight unit. The upper RH one is for horizontle adjustment and the one on the LL is for verticle. That seems entirely consistent with your recollection. ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Sun, 03 Dec 1995 22:33:35 EST From: DGLE53A@prodigy.com ( PETER J GILMORE) To: pc800@hpc.uh.edu Hello. Peter Gilmore is my name. I bought a new '96 pc800 here in Portland, Oregon. Been away from riding about 10 years. Previous bike Maxim 550 (Yamaha) and Trophy 550 (Triumph). Interested in riding through our wet but realatively mild winter. Looking for gear advice. I don't want to spend $800 for the best UK suit as one afficianado told me I needed to do. I love the bike. Someone also has tried to expalin and introduce counter steering to me. Old habits die hard I guess. I don't get it. I steer the way I always have - INTO the turn. LIke to hear from experienced pc owners with advice, gripes, etc. cheers. PG... DGLE53A@prodigy.com (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Sun, 3 Dec 1995 19:41:02 -0800 ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Sun, 3 Dec 1995 19:41:02 -0800 To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu From: dkgross@halcyon.com (David Gross) Subject: Re: hey pg.... welcome from dave and steve in seattle. ------------ Dave Gross & Baron George Von Helldog "It's gotta groove..." ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 00:36:57 -0500 From: JTSMCRIDER@aol.com To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Subject: SAENG Stealth Edging Greetings all: A month or so ago, a couple of postings mentioned the SAENG edging, but little was said about how it works. I have the tall Hondaline screen on my PC and the tallest SAENG Quantum on my Hawk GT, but I still get a bit more noise and turbulence at faceshield level than I care for. If the edging will give another inch or two of smooth air up top, I would give it a try. What is the concensus? Is it worth the $1/inch or whatever they're asking for it now? JT ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 01:32:07 -0500 From: JTSMCRIDER@aol.com To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Subject: Re: No Subject (countersteering) Welcome, Peter: In a message dated 95-12-03 22:38:55 EST, you write: > Someone also has tried to expalin and introduce >counter steering to me. Old habits die hard I guess. I don't get it. >I steer the way I always have - INTO the turn. The short answer is that if you have been successful in getting your motorcycle to turn precisely when and how you want it to, then you have been countersteering all along. It is really the only effective way to steer a motorcycle, and we all do it whether we are conscious of it or not. I have a 1-hour formal presentation on the subject that I give from time to time, but the easiest and best way for you to find out about countersteering is to take your new PC to the next MSF Experienced RiderCourse that the Team Oregon folks put on in your area. This subject and other important riding techniques are covered well, and you'll get plenty of practice. They should hand out (or at least have available) the ERC Participant's Handbook which contains, among other useful items, the MSF's RiderResource #10 which explains countersteering in some detail. If they don't give you one, ask for it. Until an ERC is available (and if you've been out of the saddle for 10 years, don't put off taking the course), just keep on doing what has been working for you and don't let amateur "explanations" confuse you. Ride well and enjoy, JT ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 03:41:01 -0800 From: lucas.m@ix.netcom.com (Mark J. Lucas ) Subject: Re: Countersteer To: DGLE53A@prodigy.com ( PETER J GILMORE) Cc: pc800@hpc.uh.edu Peter, you wrote: >I love the bike. Someone also has tried to expalin and introduce >counter steering to me. Old habits die hard I guess. I don't get it. >I steer the way I always have - INTO the turn. Dispite what you may think you are doing, unless you have a side-car or are traveling under about 25 mph, it is impossible to steer into a turn and actually turn the way you want to go. A good demonstration of this is to find a chair that swivels (like a small office chair) and a bicycle tire. Hold the tire in front of you and get someone to spin it so it is going at a good clip. (Watch your nose at this time!) Now, turn the spinning tire to the left. You will turn to the right, just like you do on a motorcycle. If you'd like the full discussion of the physics on this, you can find it in the Motorcycle Consumer News (I can't come up with the exact one right now). I find it sufficient to see the physical demonstration. -- Ride in peace, Mark lucas.m@ix.netcom.com DoD# 1827 AMA# 697583 '84 Kawasaki 305 => '94 Honda Shadow VLX => '95 Honda Pacific Coast ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Mon, 4 Dec 95 07:46:42 est From: Roger_Prince@DGC.MCEO.DG.COM To: (_PETER_J_GILMORE)_DGLE53A@prodigy.com Cc: "pc800"@MSC.MCEO.DG.COM Subject: Reply to: ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: Roger Prince:DGC Date: ## 12/04/95 07:49 ## Congratulations and welcome, Peter Gilmore. I like that color based on one viewing on a showroom floor. Roger ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: ( PETER J GILMORE) DGLE53A@prodigy.com:dg-smtp Date: ## 12/03/95 22:33 ## Hello. Peter Gilmore is my name. I bought a new '96 pc800 here in Portland, Oregon. Been away from riding about 10 years. Previous bike Maxim 550 (Yamaha) and Trophy 550 (Triumph). Interested in riding through our wet but realatively mild winter. Looking for gear advice. I don't want to spend $800 for the best UK suit as one afficianado told me I needed to do. I love the bike. Someone also has tried to expalin and introduce counter steering to me. Old habits die hard I guess. I don't get it. I steer the way I always have - INTO the turn. LIke to hear from experienced pc owners with advice, gripes, etc. cheers. PG... DGLE53A@prodigy.com ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 06:59:53 -0600 Mon, 4 Dec 1995 7:59:41 -0500 (EST) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu From: "Waldo E. Meeks" Subject: Re: Re: Air filter for a '90 PC 800 At 02:37 PM 12/2/95 -0500, you wrote: > >---------- Forwarded Message ---------- > >From: INTERNET:HONDAMIL@aol.com, INTERNET:HONDAMIL@aol.com >TO: Dana L. Sawyer, 71430,340 >DATE: 12/1/95 1:25 PM > >RE: Re: Air filter for a '90 PC 800 > >>DANA SAWYER, Founder, HSTA >> > >How are you doing.... >90 pc800 air filter I can do for $29.99+ shipping at $10.00 ups ground >anywhere in cont US. >No sales tax if shipped out Ca >In stock and available >Thanks >Andy >Honda of Milpitas >408-263-6060 Thanks Dana. Waldo GSU ============================== Dr. Waldo E. Meeks Manufacturing Program Coordinator/ Professor - Industrial Management Allen E. Paulson College of Science and Technology LB# 8047 Georgia Southern University Statesboro, GA 30460 (912)681-5828 FAX (912)871-1853 ============================== with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 04 Dec 1995 08:23:32 -0700 ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Mon, 04 Dec 1995 08:29:30 -0700 From: Neill Thompson To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Subject: Countersteering I think the most effective demonstration of countersteering is to find a nice straight stretch of road and while riding, gently push on the left handle bar and notice the bike begin to bear left. Reverse the pressure so that you are genly pushing on the right handle bar. By alternating pressure left and right, you should be able to set up a gentle weaving. Assuming that you are in traffic, don't do anything drastic, just a very mild manuver. If you can get onto a vacant piece of pavement you might try a more pronounced manuver and simulate the 'cones' exercise from the MSF Beginning Rider course. In the words of my MSF instructor, "Push right-go right". It doesn't seem logical but once you get into the feel of it on the straight, you may recognize that that is what you have been doing unconsciously in other situations. Comments: Authenticated sender is ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: "John Palfery" To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 10:01:16 +0000 Subject: Welcome Roger Prince, Counter intuitive steering! Priority: normal Welcome Roger Prince ! You've been counter steering without knowing it or you wouldn't have come this far on a motorcycle. The explanation and gyro mechanics are quite COUNTER intuitive. Don't worry about it, just keep riding. You will be a much BETTER and SAFER rider if you CAN grasp the concept of what you are actually doing to steer, particularly important in a collision avoidence manoever. Try the experiments suggested by others on this list THEY REALLY DO WORK. Better yet sign up for the MSF rider course, I did after I had been riding for 40+ years and I learned a LOT. Keep the rubber side down! John ________________________________________________________ John Palfery jpalfer@mail.atw.fullfeed.com ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu (Kent Polk) Subject: Re: SAENG Stealth Edging (from JTSMCRIDER@aol.com) (at Mon, 04 Dec 1995 00:36:57 -0500) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Date: Mon, 4 Dec 95 10:38:12 CST Hi JTSMCRIDER (JTSMCRIDER), in <951204003656_124220538@emout06.mail.aol.com> on Dec 04 you wrote: > A month or so ago, a couple of postings mentioned the SAENG edging, but [...] > will give another inch or two of smooth air up top, I would give it a try. > What is the concensus? Is it worth the $1/inch or whatever they're asking > for it now? Barely worth it, but I'd do it again. Only if you really need that extra inch or two. I've been running it with the stock '90 short screen for a couple of years now. Kent Polk: Southwest Research Institute Internet : kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 09:26:09 -0900 (AKST) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu From: "Juan A. Goula" Subject: Re: Honda parts prices...ouch! At 07:46 PM 11/30/95 -1000, you wrote: >Yea, Juan and Neill, I know what you guys are talking about with this cold >weather. I rode back home from the gym last night and almost froze my butt >off! Last night we hit a low temp of 76 deg here in Honolulu, and riding >in that kind of weather with only a tank top and shorts sure does get cold! >I need to get a high windshield to block the chill. Does anybody know if >I can get one with a sun tint so I don't burn and peal all the time? Actually, Rifle does make a tinted shield. Have you tried spreading sunblock over your current shield? : - ) >Seriously, besides the windshield, I also need to get an air filter and >some other parts. Unfortunately there ain't much selection on this island, >so I need to get most things mail order. Any recommendations? I've got >an '89 with low miles and I really love it. I also have an '83 Sabre in >California. The Sabre's faster, but the PC's much easier to ride. I bet most bikes in Hawaii are low mileage. How do they fare with the salt air though? Summer of '94 I saw a '94 PC with Hawaii plates. The guy had two or three antennas sticking out the back from under his cover. Must have been expensive to ship it over here! (or maybe those bolt on pontoons I keep hearing about) : - ) >I live on the south east tip of the island of Oahu, and riding my PC here >is like being in heaven! The best time is around sunset. The sky blazes >with fire, the flowers become super fragrant, and the air cools to a balmy >80 deg. We're starting our rainy season now, but if anyone wants to thaw >out and be with nature, this is the place. How would you rate the islands as far as quality/quantity of roads? The only one I've been on is Maui. >I just got on the mailing list a short while ago and really appreciate the >advice, wit, and wisdom you guys have. If anyone plans to come here, drop >me a line - maybe I can help you plan a really great time. Welcome, and thanks. Juan It is a well known fact that Alaskans do not tan. Instead, they just thaw... ________________________________ Juan A. Goula School of Fisheries & Ocean Sciences University of Alaska Fairbanks AMA # 532390 \\\\ HSTA # 4995RG 1990 Honda PC800 \\\\ 1993 Arctic Cat Panther DLX ________________________________ ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Subject: Bolt On Pontoons? Date: Mon, 04 Dec 1995 11:17:11 -0800 From: Gaye Grabill This sounds like something the PC riders in the Northwest need to check up on! The way things are going here they should come in quite handy very soon... :-) -gaye -- Gaye Grabill gaye@percy.rain.com ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 11:35:56 -0900 (AKST) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu From: "Juan A. Goula" Subject: PC800 at -30F At 10:27 AM 12/1/95 +0000, you wrote: >This ones for Juan and Cory -- > >How does the plastic stand up in the kind of temperatues you guys >experience in the winter. Can you even touch the PC without the >plastic shattering !! Do you store the bikes in a heated space ? >John Well John, I really don't know, since I've never taken my bike out when it is this cold (currently at a cozy -29F). Both Cory and I keep our bikes in heated garages. I suspect it gets pretty brittle though. This reminds me of the winter of '89 - '90, when we broke all cold temp. records ( -68F here in Fairbanks, -88 a bit further north) Any way, one of the "Big Three" auto manufacturers thought it would be neat to do some cold weather testing on their then-new models. They never though it would get that cold. When the testers tried to close the doors one morning, the all ended up with the door handles and a chunk of the door panels in their hands! There is a guy, our local BMW dealer (a real character) that does ride all winter. His fairing is made out of fiberglass though. I once asked him if he used studded tires, and he replied: "Nah, they give me too much confidence." (true story!) Let's see: (Northern "lower 48" and Canadian riders will be familiar with some of these): At 0F your nose hairs freeze At -10 the snow gets crunchy and ice squeaks. At -20 mineral motor oil starts pouring like molases At -30 You better hope you plugged your car in. At -35 Oil in shock absorbers is worthless. Even Cadillacs ride like old WWII Willys Jeeps At -40 a 50/50 mixture of antifreeze is no longer effective, unprotected engine blocks start snapping like chestnuts. At -45 Cheap tires get flat spots at the road contact point. You can throw a glas-full of water up in the air and the water will never reach the ground. At -50 Hydraulic brakes and clutches feel like they have honey in the lines. At -55 Cold fan belts snap like pretzels. At -60 Even good quality tires become "square" and you get a thunka-thunka ride for at least a couple of miles. At -65 Kiss your un-heated battery goodbye. At -70 Who cares! Stay home! : - ) Don't you guys feel lucky? Juan It is a well known fact that Alaskans do not tan. Instead, they just thaw... ________________________________ Juan A. Goula School of Fisheries & Ocean Sciences University of Alaska Fairbanks AMA # 532390 \\\\ HSTA # 4995RG 1990 Honda PC800 \\\\ 1993 Arctic Cat Panther DLX ________________________________ Comments: Authenticated sender is ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: "Michael S. Keller" To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 16:12:33 -0600 Subject: Re: PC800 at -30F Priority: normal > At -65 Kiss your un-heated battery goodbye. > At -70 Who cares! Stay home! : - ) > > Don't you guys feel lucky? So why do you stay? With electric gear you can ride year-round in Oklahoma in comfort. It doesn't snow much in Tulsa & OKC, either. -Michael [AB5EL] mskeller@ionet.net michael.keller@paranet.com Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA, Earth, Sol System, Orion Arm. . . . ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: 04 Dec 95 17:41:22 EST From: Russell Jackson <73370.1672@compuserve.com> To: pc800 Subject: Re: Message from Internet >Interested in riding through our wet but realatively mild winter. >Looking for gear advice. I don't want to spend $800 for the best UK >suit as one afficianado told me I needed to do. Peter, Motoport makes a nice Gortex rain suit for $99 I believe. You might want to check that out if you aren't interested in the higher end waterproof riding suits. You can reach Motoport at 619-929-4880. Rusty ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: 04 Dec 95 18:09:57 EST From: "Dana L. Sawyer" <71430.340@compuserve.com> To: HondaPacificCoastOwners Subject: We need YOU in the HSTA! If you're not a member of the Honda Sport Touring Association, I'd like to send you an information brochure/membership application! We have close to 2,000 members and more than 100 PC800 Pacific Coast owners! We plan to have a meeting of PC owners at STAR '96, our 14th national rally, to be held June 23-27, 1996 at Canaan Valley Resort, Davis, West Virginia. A number of you have responded to my recent E-mail message. Some of you have been HSTA members for years, whereas others of you have joined the HSTA more recently! To each you, my heartfelt thanks! To the rest of you, we have a spot reserved just for you! We're going places...crank up that PC and ride along with us! So...send me your snail-mail addresss and I'll fill up your mail box! Happy Christmas and Merry New Year! And...be real careful out there! Note: I have a '980 Honda PC800 Pacific Coast with 61,000 miles. It runs and looks about like new! And...no...it's not for sale! That is...unless I like the looks of the color of the new '96 model! Dana L. Sawyer Founder, Executive Committee Member and South Carolina State Director - HSTA Member #0001 AMA Life Member #180901 "Life is short...I think I'll go riding!" ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: 4 Dec 1995 15:39:43 -0800 From: "George Korbel" Subject: Re: PC800- We need YOU in th To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Reply to: RE>PC800: We need YOU in the HSTA! Please send the info concerning HSTA to: George Korbel 6183 Corte Trancas Pleasanton, CA 94566 Thanks. -------------------------------------- ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: 12/4/95 3:28 PM To: George Korbel From: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu If you're not a member of the Honda Sport Touring Association, I'd like to send you an information brochure/membership application! We have close to 2,000 members and more than 100 PC800 Pacific Coast owners! We plan to have a meeting of PC owners at STAR '96, our 14th national rally, to be held June 23-27, 1996 at Canaan Valley Resort, Davis, West Virginia. A number of you have responded to my recent E-mail message. Some of you have been HSTA members for years, whereas others of you have joined the HSTA more recently! To each you, my heartfelt thanks! To the rest of you, we have a spot reserved just for you! We're going places...crank up that PC and ride along with us! So...send me your snail-mail addresss and I'll fill up your mail box! Happy Christmas and Merry New Year! And...be real careful out there! Note: I have a '980 Honda PC800 Pacific Coast with 61,000 miles. It runs and looks about like new! And...no...it's not for sale! That is...unless I like the looks of the color of the new '96 model! Dana L. Sawyer Founder, Executive Committee Member and South Carolina State Director - HSTA Member #0001 AMA Life Member #180901 "Life is short...I think I'll go riding!" ------------------ RFC822 Header Follows ------------------ (8.6.10/LLNL-1.18/llnl.gov-03.95) by Post-Office.UH.EDU (PMDF V5.0-5 #8380) 04 Dec 1995 17:17:10 -0600 (CST) 04 Dec 1995 17:15:47 -0600 04 Dec 1995 18:15:43 -0500 ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Mon, 04 Dec 1995 18:09:57 -0500 (EST) From: "Dana L. Sawyer" <71430.340@compuserve.com> Subject: We need YOU in the HSTA! To: HondaPacificCoastOwners Reply-to: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: Bryce Ulrich To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Date: Mon, 4 Dec 95 16:10:16 TZ Subject: RE: Hi Peter, Welcome I've added you to my "Northwest Riders" list (9 so far). Gaye Gabrill is in Portland (gaye@percy.rain.com) and Michael Jones is in Linfield (mjones@calbin.linfield.edu). I'm up in the Seattle area with the remaining half dozen. <> If your really commited to it you may find yourself with an Aerostictch or Motoport in the end. I tried using all my backpacking gear -- goretex parka, coated rainpants, etc -- and finally got fed up with spending so much time dressing/undressing. The more pieces and layers you have the longer and tougher it gets. By the time you add it all up your not that far from getting a suit designed specically for the wet and daily grind of motorcycle commuting. The Aerostitch is very popular amongst the riders here at Microsoft and the Motoport has recently started a strong showing. Both seem designed specifically for Northwest riding and will keep you dry and comfortable 98% of the time. In 50+ temps I often only need a t-shirt underneath for my daily commute. 30-50 degrees I use polarfleece. Below 30 and I recommend electic stuff. << Someone also has tried to explain and introduce counter steering to me.>> Lots of stuff written on the subject. To get some hands on instruction I recommend the Motorcycle Safety Foundation courses. They're cheap and easy to do. The Experienced Rider Course is one day and should be just what you're looking for. -bryceu ---------------------------------------------------------- Bryce Ulrich - bryceu@microsoft.com - 206/704-3205 Product Support Engineer: Microsoft Corp, Redmond, WA '89 Honda PC800 "Pearl" AMA 332198/HRCA HM711115/HSTA 6140 ---------------------------------------------------------- ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 15:38:21 -0900 (AKST) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu From: "Juan A. Goula" Subject: Northwest Riders >Welcome I've added you to my "Northwest Riders" list (9 so far). Gaye >Gabrill is in Portland (gaye@percy.rain.com) and Michael Jones is in >Linfield (mjones@calbin.linfield.edu). I'm up in the Seattle area with >the remaining half dozen. How many of you are planning on attending the International Motorcycle Show? I'll be there Sunday th 14th, maybe we can meet there! Juan ------------------------------------------------------------------ It is a well known fact that Alaskans do not tan. Instead, they just thaw... Juan A. Goula School of Fisheries & Ocean Sciences University of Alaska Fairbanks AMA # 532390 \\\\ HSTA # 4995RG 1990 Honda PC800 \\\\ 1993 Arctic Cat Panther DLX ----------------------------------------------------------------- ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: Bryce Ulrich To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Date: Mon, 4 Dec 95 16:59:32 TZ Subject: Northwest Roster -- calling all slugs! I've been compiling a list of all the Northwest riders in hopes of doing some group rides. What I have so far is below followed by a more detailed file attatchment with phone/address. Please let me know if there are any additions/corrections. Gathering Proposal: Intl. Motorcycle Show in Seattle Jan 12-14. Breakfast, group ride, see the show, etc. Email me direct and I'll put it together. -bryceu ------------------ First Last City State Email Bike Dane Cote Bremerton WA dancote@aol.com Jerry Kirdby Issaquah WA 95 Bryce Ulrich Kirkland WA bryceu@microsoft.com 89 Steve Gross Seattle WA slgross@halcyon.com 89 Dave Gross Seattle WA dkgross@halcyon.com 90 Mike McCarty North Bend WA spirit737@aol.com 94 Michael Jones Linfield OR mjones@calbin.linfield.edu Gaye Gabrill Portland OR gaye@percy.rain.com Peter Gilmore Portland OR DGLE53A@prodigy.com 96 [[ PC800.XLS : 4544 in PC800.XLS ]] ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: Bryce Ulrich To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Date: Mon, 4 Dec 95 17:02:54 TZ Subject: RE: Northwest Riders I'll keep you in loop Juan. Just sent mail to the others about the show. Once I know who wants to come I'll email everyone seperately from the PC800 alias so we;ll keep the email traffic down for everyone else. -bryceu ---------- ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: "Juan A. Goula" To: Subject: Northwest Riders Date: Monday, December 04, 1995 3:38PM >Welcome I've added you to my "Northwest Riders" list (9 so far). Gaye >Gabrill is in Portland (gaye@percy.rain.com) and Michael Jones is in >Linfield (mjones@calbin.linfield.edu). I'm up in the Seattle area with >the remaining half dozen. How many of you are planning on attending the International Motorcycle Show? I'll be there Sunday th 14th, maybe we can meet there! Juan ------------------------------------------------------------------ It is a well known fact that Alaskans do not tan. Instead, they just thaw... Juan A. Goula School of Fisheries & Ocean Sciences University of Alaska Fairbanks AMA # 532390 \\\\ HSTA # 4995RG 1990 Honda PC800 \\\\ 1993 Arctic Cat Panther DLX ----------------------------------------------------------------- ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 20:27:36 -0500 From: BillF13019@aol.com To: pc800@hpc.uh.edu Subject: Gas gauge I drained my tank and performed a precision adjustment on the fuel level sensor. In other words I bent the crap out of it. I put the gas back in a gallon at a time to get a feel how the gauge reads. I found that with the gauge reading empty with 1/2 gallon in the tank that three gallons took the gauge to the full mark. The extra gallon or so just pushes the needle past the full mark. Has anyone else had problems with the windscreen air vent warping? I'm talking about the little scoop piece that fits behind the small grill below the windshield. On mine there is a gap where the scoop meets the dashboard. I was thinking about taking three small screws and trying to screw them together but I'm not sure if this would mess up the plastic. Thanks Bill Comments: Authenticated sender is ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: "Michael S. Keller" To: BillF13019@aol.com, pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 20:15:52 -0600 Subject: Dashboard Warp Priority: normal > Has anyone else had problems with the windscreen air vent warping? I'm > talking about the little scoop piece that fits behind the small grill below > the windshield. On mine there is a gap where the scoop meets the dashboard. > > I was thinking about taking three small screws and trying to screw them > together but I'm not sure if this would mess up the plastic. If you have a tall Honda shield, it's likely the culprit. -Michael [AB5EL] mskeller@ionet.net michael.keller@paranet.com Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA, Earth, Sol System, Orion Arm. . . . (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Mon, 4 Dec 1995 18:21:04 -0800 ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 18:21:04 -0800 To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu From: slgross@halcyon.com (Steve Gross) Subject: Re: Northwest Riders Juan, Dave & I will _definitely_ be there. Either day is fine. *** Steve Gross, Seattle, WA Talk is cheap, until you hire a lawyer. *** ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 17:27:02 -0900 (AKST) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu From: "Juan A. Goula" Subject: Re: Gas gauge At 08:27 PM 12/4/95 -0500, you wrote: >Has anyone else had problems with the windscreen air vent warping? I'm >talking about the little scoop piece that fits behind the small grill below >the windshield. On mine there is a gap where the scoop meets the dashboard. Bill, Two posibilities: a) Someone took the bike apart and did not put the pieces back together correctly b) Do you have a Honda Tall Windshield? Those things have a nasty habit of melting dashboards >I was thinking about taking three small screws and trying to screw them >together but I'm not sure if this would mess up the plastic. I would try to take everything apart and fit it back together. I know it's a major hassle, but if it works you don't punch holes in you bike. Good luck! Juan ------------------------------------------------------------------ It is a well known fact that Alaskans do not tan. Instead, they just thaw... Juan A. Goula School of Fisheries & Ocean Sciences University of Alaska Fairbanks AMA # 532390 \\\\ HSTA # 4995RG 1990 Honda PC800 \\\\ 1993 Arctic Cat Panther DLX ----------------------------------------------------------------- ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: Bryce Ulrich To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Date: Mon, 4 Dec 95 18:28:53 TZ Subject: RE: Gas gauge I too may do the gas needle adjustment -- sure would like it for long trips. As far as the vent goes, my '89 also has the gap problem. There are only a few plastic tabs there that are supposed to keep the parts in alignment. Problem is with the warpage the tabs aren't long enough to "catch" and hold things together. I think to really fix the problem you'll need to take it all apart and build some bolt-together brakets and affix them to the vent and dash. I'm probably going to have the front cowling off later this month and I'll give it a go and report back on any working designs I come up with. I've got some cracks to heal, wiring to do, etc. -bryceu ---------- ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: To: Subject: Gas gauge Date: Monday, December 04, 1995 8:27PM I drained my tank and performed a precision adjustment on the fuel level sensor. In other words I bent the crap out of it. I put the gas back in a gallon at a time to get a feel how the gauge reads. I found that with the gauge reading empty with 1/2 gallon in the tank that three gallons took the gauge to the full mark. The extra gallon or so just pushes the needle past the full mark. Has anyone else had problems with the windscreen air vent warping? I'm talking about the little scoop piece that fits behind the small grill below the windshield. On mine there is a gap where the scoop meets the dashboard. I was thinking about taking three small screws and trying to screw them together but I'm not sure if this would mess up the plastic. Thanks Bill ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 17:37:19 -0900 (AKST) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu From: "Juan A. Goula" Subject: Re: PC800 at -30F At 04:12 PM 12/4/95 -0600, you wrote: >So why do you stay? Well... hard to pinpoint. The lifestyle fits me like a glove, the people are nice and helpful (and few), I guess there are too many that I *do* like about Alaska to list... >It doesn't snow much in Tulsa & OKC, either. Now how could I ride my sno-go if it doesn't snow? (present winter conditions excluded). Besides, by being here I get to whine about the dark ,dreary winter days to my fellow PC'ers! : - ) But enough about the cold. How about if you warm-to-hot weather riders tell us about how you equip yourselves to cope with the conditions? I mean, it's easy to put more gear on, but you can only take so much off! ; - ) Anyone with an air conditioner on their PC? ------------------------------------------------------------------ It is a well known fact that Alaskans do not tan. Instead, they just thaw... Juan A. Goula School of Fisheries & Ocean Sciences University of Alaska Fairbanks AMA # 532390 \\\\ HSTA # 4995RG 1990 Honda PC800 \\\\ 1993 Arctic Cat Panther DLX ----------------------------------------------------------------- (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Mon, 4 Dec 1995 19:04:17 -0800 ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 19:04:17 -0800 To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu From: dkgross@halcyon.com (David Gross) Subject: Re: Northwest Roster -- calling all slugs! bryce..count me in for the 13th or14th if the weather cooperates!!!! ------------ Dave Gross & Baron George Von Helldog "It's gotta groove..." (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Mon, 4 Dec 1995 19:04:12 -0800 ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 19:04:12 -0800 To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu From: dkgross@halcyon.com (David Gross) Subject: brr bryce... at what point do we start looking at bus schedules??? :>) ------------ Dave Gross & Baron George Von Helldog "It's gotta groove..." (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Mon, 4 Dec 1995 19:05:11 -0800 ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 19:05:11 -0800 To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu From: dkgross@halcyon.com (David Gross) Subject: Re: PC800 at -30F juan MOVE TO WHERE THE SUN IS! ------------ Dave Gross & Baron George Von Helldog "It's gotta groove..." 04 Dec 1995 21:20:52 -0600 (CST) ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Mon, 04 Dec 1995 21:19:52 -0600 (CST) From: kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu (Kent Polk) Subject: Re: PC800 at -30F (from "Juan A. Goula" ) (at Mon, 04 Dec 1995 17:37:19 -0900 (AKST)) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Hi Juan (Juan A. Goula), in <199512050237.RAA08822@jarvis.ims.alaska.edu> on Dec 04 you wrote: > easy to put more gear on, but you can only take so much off! ; - ) > Anyone with an air conditioner on their PC? Yep. A leather jacket with a light cotton long-sleeved shirt. I.e. a portable swamp cooler. Works great unless you're riding in 100% humidity 110+ degrees, such as Del Rio, Texas often has. :^( I've ridden in 120 degrees bundled up that way and stayed a lot more comfortable than sitting under a shade tree at those temps. Of course, part of what makes the A/C work is to make sure you stay mentally relaxed. :^) Kent Polk: Southwest Research Institute Internet : kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu (Kent Polk) Subject: RE: Gas gauge (from Bryce Ulrich ) (at Mon, 04 Dec 1995 18:28:53 +0000 (TZ)) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Date: Mon, 4 Dec 95 21:32:34 CST Hi Bryce (Bryce Ulrich), in <199512050232.SAA03036@imail1.microsoft.com> on Dec 04 you wrote: > I'm probably going to have the front cowling off later this month and > I'll give it a go and report back on any working designs I come up > with. I've got some cracks to heal, wiring to do, etc. Every PC that I've seen (pre-'94) also has a problem with the little cap that fits between the scoop you guys are talking about and the windscreen. The problem is where it meets the sides of the cowling just above the mirrors. It's supposed to wrap over the top of the cowling just outside the edge of the windscreen, but the outside edges just never quite hold. I ended up taking a solder iron and improving on the 'latch' design a bit. It stays together now... Did they ever improve that situation on the '94 and later models? Kent Polk: Southwest Research Institute Internet : kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu 04 Dec 1995 21:39:38 -0600 (CST) ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Mon, 04 Dec 1995 21:38:38 -0600 (CST) From: kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu (Kent Polk) Subject: Re: We need YOU in the HSTA! (from "Dana L. Sawyer" <71430.340@compuserve.com>) (at Mon, 04 Dec 1995 18:09:57 -0500 (EST)) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Hi Dana (Dana L. Sawyer), on Dec 04 you wrote: ^^^^ > If you're not a member of the Honda Sport Touring Association, I'd like to ^^^^^ This isn't that same person griping about me scraping my pegs is it? If so, there'd have to be a lot of explaining done prior to extracting any money from me. :^) Kent Polk: Southwest Research Institute Internet : kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu Comments: Authenticated sender is ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: "Michael S. Keller" To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Date: Mon, 4 Dec 1995 22:01:01 -0600 Subject: Re: PC800 at -30F Priority: normal > MOVE TO WHERE THE SUN IS! That's a long trip. By the way, which sun? -Michael [AB5EL] mskeller@ionet.net michael.keller@paranet.com Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA, Earth, Sol System, Orion Arm. . . . ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 01:12:20 -0500 From: Dentman711@aol.com To: pc800@hpc.uh.edu Subject: What color was the 1994 PC? Just wondering. ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 01:23:46 -0500 From: Dentman711@aol.com To: pc800@hpc.uh.edu Subject: Rick's Sunday ride Juan I really jinxed our beautiful Sunday ride by teasing you. We rolled out of my driveway at 10a.m. and headed North toward Tenn. We take as many small roads as practical. The weather turned more gloomy by the mile. I for one am not a big gloomy day person. But, I was as happy as a clam to be out riding. I bought a topo map of Tenn. Friday and had marked a route to entertain us while we rode. Are usual destination is Sewanee University of the South near I-24. The road is 2 lanes up and 1 down. You can really get into some peg dragging if you want. I for one am not up to that level with my darling with hanging on behind me. Anyway we picked up a couple of other bikers along the way and we let it all hang out on the way up. Some hot rod passed fairly easily in one of the last turns and then we all pulled into the scenic overlook. The guy pulls off his helmet and to my surprise he was a real ol' timer. Lived on top of Sewanne all his life and by God he rode that hill well. He had the smallest cc bike of the bunch to boot. Real nice fellow. Next we headed into Monteagle, Tenn. We went to a real old fashioned flea market. Some real characters at this place :-) I had some fresh roasted peanuts and looked at a lot of used stuff. The best weather passed us while we munched nuts and searched for that silk purse. By the time we ate lunch it was obvious it was going to perspire on or heads. We doubled back to Sewanne and elected to follow our original layout down Highway 156 (it would have been quicker to go back the way we came). 156 was everything we had hoped for except it was wet. 156 takes you through a state forest and is a mix of rollers and wide turns. The last portion is the real reason to ride it though. The first turn as you come off the Cumberland Plateau is a switch back. I looked to my side as I came out and my Cousin was right beside me just entering the turn. I just wish it had been dry. Many turns later you are off the Cumberland and in South Pittsburgh ( now don't get all exited thinking I have gotten lost or have found some worm hole or something, it's South Pittsburgh, Alabama). The sun never came out and the much anticipated 75F was in Mexico on vacation or something. We got a little damp and cold as we didn't get home until after sun down. Oh and we did donate to the Alabama State Troopers benevolence society $88.00 for 77mph in a 55mph :-( And I never speed in my cage! Anyhow that was our Sunday ride or at least the more interesting portions of the 180 mile jaunt. Monday was total sun and a little warmer :-( I think the next time I'm spotting for our weather man at the gym I will get a muscle cramp at an inopportune moment ;-) Later Y'all Rick Fisher Dentman711@AOL.COM ***************************************************************** *1995 Honda Pacific Coast 800cc / WARNING: NON MOTORCYCLE INFO FOLLOWS... *1992 Kawasaki 750SX Highly "stock" ;-) / 1985 & 86 Kawasaki 550 (JET SKIS) *Wife & Son / 2 dogs & 1 cat ***************************************************************** ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** To: pc800@hpc.uh.edu Subject: Re: What color was the 1994 PC? Date: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 00:28:44 -0600 From: Jason L Tibbitts III Black, just like the '95 model. - J< ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 04:04:53 -0800 From: lucas.m@ix.netcom.com (Mark J. Lucas ) Subject: Re: Gas gauge To: pc800@hpc.uh.edu Hummmmm, sounds like alot of work on the fuel tank. I just keep riding the thing and watching the gas guage. Haven't run it dry, yet, but I did put 3.8 gallons in it once. Hope that is as low as I ever get. Yep on the vent. Don't have any idea what to do about it. It really bugs me every time I see it, but any fixes I can think of would make it look uglier than it is. If you come up with some idea, let me know. You wrote: > >I drained my tank and performed a precision adjustment on the fuel level >sensor. In other words I bent the crap out of it. I put the gas back in a >gallon at a time to get a feel how the gauge reads. I found that with the >gauge reading empty with 1/2 gallon in the tank that three gallons took the >gauge to the full mark. The extra gallon or so just pushes the needle past >the full mark. > >Has anyone else had problems with the windscreen air vent warping? I'm >talking about the little scoop piece that fits behind the small grill below >the windshield. On mine there is a gap where the scoop meets the dashboard. > >I was thinking about taking three small screws and trying to screw them >together but I'm not sure if this would mess up the plastic. > >Thanks >Bill > -- Ride in peace, Mark lucas.m@ix.netcom.com DoD# 1827 AMA# 697583 '84 Kawasaki 305 => '94 Honda Shadow VLX => '95 Honda Pacific Coast ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 06:54:22 -0600 Tue, 5 Dec 1995 7:54:01 -0500 (EST) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu From: "Waldo E. Meeks" Subject: RE: Fit >Every PC that I've seen (pre-'94) also has a problem with the little >cap that fits between the scoop you guys are talking about and the >windscreen. The problem is where it meets the sides of the cowling >just above the mirrors. It's supposed to wrap over the top of the >cowling just outside the edge of the windscreen, but the outside >edges just never quite hold. >Kent Polk: Southwest Research Institute >Internet : kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu I installed a Rifle system and it fits perfect. My tall Hondaline had the same problem. Waldo GSU ============================== Dr. Waldo E. Meeks Manufacturing Program Coordinator/ Professor - Industrial Management Allen E. Paulson College of Science and Technology LB# 8047 Georgia Southern University Statesboro, GA 30460 (912)681-5828 FAX (912)871-1853 ============================== ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Tue, 5 Dec 95 08:57:28 est From: Roger_Prince@DGC.MCEO.DG.COM To: (Kent_Polk)_kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu Cc: "pc800"@MSC.MCEO.DG.COM Subject: Reply to: RE: Gas gauge ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: Roger Prince:DGC Date: ## 12/05/95 09:00 ## The "garnish" you are referring to doesn't fit any better on the '95 than on the '90 because all they changed is the color. Roger ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: (Kent Polk) kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu:dg-smtp Date: ## 12/04/95 21:32 ## Hi Bryce (Bryce Ulrich), in <199512050232.SAA03036@imail1.microsoft.com> on Dec 04 you wrote: > I'm probably going to have the front cowling off later this month and > I'll give it a go and report back on any working designs I come up > with. I've got some cracks to heal, wiring to do, etc. Every PC that I've seen (pre-'94) also has a problem with the little cap that fits between the scoop you guys are talking about and the windscreen. The problem is where it meets the sides of the cowling just above the mirrors. It's supposed to wrap over the top of the cowling just outside the edge of the windscreen, but the outside edges just never quite hold. I ended up taking a solder iron and improving on the 'latch' design a bit. It stays together now... Did they ever improve that situation on the '94 and later models? Kent Polk: Southwest Research Institute Internet : kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Tue, 5 Dec 95 09:12:42 est From: Roger_Prince@DGC.MCEO.DG.COM To: (Mark_J._Lucas_)_lucas.m@ix.netcom.com Cc: "pc800"@MSC.MCEO.DG.COM Subject: Reply to: Re: Gas gauge ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: Roger Prince:DGC Date: ## 12/05/95 09:15 ## I agree about why bother with the fuel gauge sender. I've figured out what the gauge is telling me as is. I've put 4.0+ gallons in my tank more times than my wife likes to think of (4.3 once just out of Death Valley) but have never run out. A six gallon tank is what is really needed. IMHO. Roger ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: (Mark J. Lucas ) lucas.m@ix.netcom.com:dg-smtp Date: ## 12/05/95 04:04 ## Hummmmm, sounds like alot of work on the fuel tank. I just keep riding the thing and watching the gas guage. Haven't run it dry, yet, but I did put 3.8 gallons in it once. Hope that is as low as I ever get. Yep on the vent. Don't have any idea what to do about it. It really bugs me every time I see it, but any fixes I can think of would make it look uglier than it is. If you come up with some idea, let me know. You wrote: > >I drained my tank and performed a precision adjustment on the fuel level >sensor. In other words I bent the crap out of it. I put the gas back in a >gallon at a time to get a feel how the gauge reads. I found that with the >gauge reading empty with 1/2 gallon in the tank that three gallons took the >gauge to the full mark. The extra gallon or so just pushes the needle past >the full mark. > >Has anyone else had problems with the windscreen air vent warping? I'm >talking about the little scoop piece that fits behind the small grill below >the windshield. On mine there is a gap where the scoop meets the dashboard. > >I was thinking about taking three small screws and trying to screw them >together but I'm not sure if this would mess up the plastic. > >Thanks >Bill ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu (Kent Polk) Subject: Re: Gas gauge (from lucas.m@ix.netcom.com (Mark J. Lucas )) (at Tue, 05 Dec 1995 04:04:53 -0800) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Date: Tue, 5 Dec 95 09:10:10 CST Hi Mark (Mark J. Lucas), in <199512051204.EAA27968@ix.ix.netcom.com> on Dec 05 you wrote: > Hummmmm, sounds like alot of work on the fuel tank. I just keep riding the > thing and watching the gas guage. Haven't run it dry, yet, but I did put 3.8 It's really not that hard to do. Remember where the gauge was when you put 4.0 gallons in it? Well, just run it to there, put the bike on the centerstand, pull the sending unit out and adjust till that '4.0' reads where you want. Took me a total of about 5 minutes (hit it the first time), including the time I spent just looking around while I was there. The main reason I did it was to prevent hysteria when someone unfamiliar with the situation is on the bike and it still has over a gallon left. > gallons in it once. Hope that is as low as I ever get. It'll hold about 4.3 gal to the top of the filler neck. I run it down to 4.0 pretty much every tankfull. That still gives me a 10+ mile reserve. Plenty of time to look for a station under normal circumstances. Kent Polk: Southwest Research Institute Internet : kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: "Robert E. Marks" Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 10:13:18 -0500 To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Subject: Windshield Option Waldo, Your the first person I've seen on this list that went from the tall Hondaline to the Rifle system. From all that I've seen so far about the Rifle, I've been wondering about making the switch myself. I get the impression that the visibilty (ie. lack of distortion) through the Rifle screen is better and wind protection for driver is about the same. My concern is that the Rifle screen dosn't appear to be as wide and may not afford the same wind protection for the PASSENGER. Even so, the tall Hondaline doen't provide much wind protection for the back passenger. I was guessing that since the Rifle screen was more streamlined, that the side turbulance may be reduced, and that the passenger wind protection may be the same or better. What do you think? I'm glad to hear the Rifle fits well (except for the need to enlarge the one mounting hole). REM ============================================================================== Robert E. Marks CAD/CAM S/W development & support Lockheed Martin email: rmarks@motown.ge.com Moorestown, NJ voice: (609) 722-3777 near Philadelphia, PA. fax: (609) 722-4410 '89 PC800, '84 Helix (my better half) AMA, HRC ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 09:38:01 -0600 Tue, 5 Dec 1995 10:37:40 -0500 (EST) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu From: "Waldo E. Meeks" Subject: Re: Windshield Option At 10:13 AM 12/5/95 -0500, you wrote: >Waldo, > >Your the first person I've seen on this list that went from the tall >Hondaline to the Rifle system. From all that I've seen so far about the >Rifle, I've been wondering about making the switch myself. I get the >impression that the visibilty (ie. lack of distortion) through the Rifle >screen is better and wind protection for driver is about the same. Wind protection is better, fit is better, it is better looking and I do not believe it will cause meltdown of my dash. (Honda of America denyed to me that this happens by the way. They call it normal sun deteriation. I call it " blow torch meltdown.") > >My concern is that the Rifle screen dosn't appear to be as wide and may not >afford the same wind protection for the PASSENGER. Not sure about the passenger protection. Driver protection is fantastic. I highly recommend the Rifle system. Best inprovement I have made to my bike. I got the tint and look over it. The middle height rifle is about the same as the Hondaline. (Slightly taller). I can raise by head two or three inches above normal and still not get any wind buffing. Probably could go with the shortest Rifle size. Good Luck. Waldo >============================================================================== >Robert E. Marks CAD/CAM S/W development & support >Lockheed Martin email: rmarks@motown.ge.com >Moorestown, NJ voice: (609) 722-3777 >near Philadelphia, PA. fax: (609) 722-4410 >'89 PC800, '84 Helix (my better half) >AMA, HRC > > > ============================== Dr. Waldo E. Meeks Manufacturing Program Coordinator/ Professor - Industrial Management Allen E. Paulson College of Science and Technology LB# 8047 Georgia Southern University Statesboro, GA 30460 (912)681-5828 FAX (912)871-1853 ============================== ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Tue, 5 Dec 95 07:51:33 PST From: Richard A. Hardy To: pc800@hpc.uh.edu Subject: coolant removal %UNIPLEX %TO pc800@hpc.uh.edu %FROM c601rah %SYSTEM argo %SUBJECT coolant removal %DATE 28/11/95 13:45 %REFERENCE 42449 Richard Hardy San Diego c601rah@sssd.navy.mil 1990 PC800 bought new May 1992 I just subscribed yesterday, Nov 27, 1995 I recently changed my coolant, following the Honda Service Manual, and thought I might save others some time. The manual is fine up to the point of draining the coolant by removal of the drain bolt. This requires removal of only the left step holder cover, saddlebag protecter, side cover, and lower cover. Note: replace the drain bolt sealing washer as the manual recommends as it only costs 84 cents. The manual then states to remove the reserve tank bolt and drain the reserve tank. DON'T DO IT! It requires removal of both step holder@@ DDDD covers, side covers, lower covers, mirrors, fairing protecters, air duct lids, the windscreen, and front upper cowl. What do you gain? Disposition of a about six ounces of old coolant. It isn't worth it! Far better to@@ DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD simply siphon it out, and if you miss an ounce or so, what of it? Once I got into the above removals, it was like a point of no return, but I'll not do it again for a few ounces of coolant. %UEND (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Tue, 5 Dec 1995 08:20:20 -0800 ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 08:20:20 -0800 To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu From: dkgross@halcyon.com (David Gross) Subject: Re: Windshield Option waldo..do you have the '+2" or the +4" ? ------------ Dave Gross & Baron George Von Helldog "It's gotta groove..." with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 05 Dec 1995 11:17:51 -0500 ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 11:17:24 -0500 From: JAN DEROOS To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Subject: I'll add to Waldo's comments. I'm a 6'1" (and shrinking) lad who recently I'll add to Waldo's comments. I'm a 6'1" (and shrinking) lad who recently installed the +2 Rifle, non-tinted. I am extremely happy with the change. Installation was easy, with no modifications needed. Fit and finish are very good. Driver protection is excellent. I was astounded at the reduction in the noise level vs. the tall Hondaline; I can really hear the engine, transmission and tires now, which makes for a more enjoyable ride. I look over the shield most of the time, but find it really easy to crouch a little bit to look through, especially at speed. Optics and clarity of the shield are very good with no distortion In addition, the reflection of the round keyswitch in the shield is very much reduced. My wife feels more protected, but very marginally. I notice that we can now talk without shouting on our intercom system, and we can actually hear the radio. There is no question that $200 is a lot to pay for the improvements, but IMHO it's worth every penny. Jan deRoos jad10@cornell.edu >>> Waldo E. Meeks 12/05/95 10:38am >>> At 10:13 AM 12/5/95 -0500, you wrote: >Waldo, > >Your the first person I've seen on this list that went from the tall >Hondaline to the Rifle system. From all that I've seen so far about the >Rifle, I've been wondering about making the switch myself. I get the >impression that the visibilty (ie. lack of distortion) through the Rifle >screen is better and wind protection for driver is about the same. Wind protection is better, fit is better, it is better looking and I do not believe it will cause meltdown of my dash. (Honda of America denyed to me that this happens by the way. They call it normal sun deteriation. I call it " blow torch meltdown.") > >My concern is that the Rifle screen dosn't appear to be as wide and may not >afford the same wind protection for the PASSENGER. Not sure about the passenger protection. Driver protection is fantastic. I highly recommend the Rifle system. Best inprovement I have made to my bike. I got the tint and look over it. The middle height rifle is about the same as the Hondaline. (Slightly taller). I can raise by head two or three inches above normal and still not get any wind buffing. Probably could go with the shortest Rifle size. Good Luck. Waldo >============================================================================== >Robert E. Marks CAD/CAM S/W development & support >Lockheed Martin email: rmarks@motown.ge.com >Moorestown, NJ voice: (609) 722-3777 >near Philadelphia, PA. fax: (609) 722-4410 >'89 PC800, '84 Helix (my better half) >AMA, HRC > > > ============================== Dr. Waldo E. Meeks Manufacturing Program Coordinator/ Professor - Industrial Management Allen E. Paulson College of Science and Technology LB# 8047 Georgia Southern University Statesboro, GA 30460 (912)681-5828 FAX (912)871-1853 ============================== ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 11:15:06 -0600 Tue, 5 Dec 1995 12:14:45 -0500 (EST) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu From: "Waldo E. Meeks" Subject: Re: Windshield Option At 08:20 AM 12/5/95 -0800, you wrote: >waldo..do you have the '+2" or the +4" ? > > >------------ >Dave Gross & Baron George Von Helldog >"It's gotta groove..." I have the 22" which is about the same as the Hondaline tall in height. (slightly taller). I am 6'1" and like to look over the sheild. Like I said before if I move my head two or three inches higher than usually riding position I still do not receive any wind buffing. I believe I could do with the 20" shield and have better visibility although it works great now. I did cut one inch off the 22" shield however. I could see over before I cut but this just made it better. Rifle home page can be found on the web by typing in "Rifle". Take Care Waldo Waldo ============================== Dr. Waldo E. Meeks Manufacturing Program Coordinator/ Professor - Industrial Management Allen E. Paulson College of Science and Technology LB# 8047 Georgia Southern University Statesboro, GA 30460 (912)681-5828 FAX (912)871-1853 ============================== ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 08:51:10 -0900 (AKST) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu From: "Juan A. Goula" Subject: RE: Gas gauge At 09:32 PM 12/4/95 -0600, you wrote: >Every PC that I've seen (pre-'94) also has a problem with the little >cap that fits between the scoop you guys are talking about and the >windscreen. The problem is where it meets the sides of the cowling >just above the mirrors. It's supposed to wrap over the top of the >cowling just outside the edge of the windscreen, but the outside >edges just never quite hold. Count me in on that one. I always thought it was because of the Rifle shield lower piece so I just ignored it. ------------------------------------------------------------------ It is a well known fact that Alaskans do not tan. Instead, they just thaw... Juan A. Goula School of Fisheries & Ocean Sciences University of Alaska Fairbanks AMA # 532390 \\\\ HSTA # 4995RG 1990 Honda PC800 \\\\ 1993 Arctic Cat Panther DLX ----------------------------------------------------------------- by Post-Office.UH.EDU (PMDF V5.0-5 #8380) 05 Dec 1995 12:01:14 -0600 (CST) by jarvis.ims.alaska.edu (8.7.1/8.7.1) with SMTP id IAA11263 for ; Tue, 05 Dec 1995 08:56:08 -0900 (AKST) ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 08:56:08 -0900 (AKST) From: "Juan A. Goula" Subject: Re: What color was the 1994 PC? To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu At 01:12 AM 12/5/95 -0500, you wrote: >Just wondering. Black top/silver bottom. ------------------------------------------------------------------ It is a well known fact that Alaskans do not tan. Instead, they just thaw... Juan A. Goula School of Fisheries & Ocean Sciences University of Alaska Fairbanks AMA # 532390 \\\\ HSTA # 4995RG 1990 Honda PC800 \\\\ 1993 Arctic Cat Panther DLX ----------------------------------------------------------------- ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: Bryce Ulrich To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Date: Tue, 5 Dec 95 11:05:27 TZ Subject: Re: Windshield Option >My concern is that the Rifle screen dosn't appear to be as wide and may not >afford the same wind protection for the PASSENGER. Speeds under 65mph: My passenger will attest that a +4" Rifle was a big improvement over the short stock '89 shield. She can listen to the radio and talk on the intercom in a normal voice. Speeds over 65 (especially in Montana): Lots of wind buffetting and sometimes she says her helmet wants to pull off. Leanne calls it "the Interstate Beating" (tm). Of course I don't feel a thing in the drivers seat. If we need to make time or I feel like having fun we negotiate how long we'll ride fast before giving her a break. I often let her lean her chin on one of my shoulders for extended periods of time. Top speed for the 2 of us was 115mph flying through central Montana with full load of camping gear strapped on the back. Yehaw! -bryceu ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 16:16:49 -0500 From: JTSMCRIDER@aol.com To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Subject: Re: Gas gauge Hi Kent: In a message dated 95-12-04 23:34:49 EST, you write: >I ended up taking a solder iron and improving on the 'latch' design a bit. It stays > together now... How about a few more details on your improvements. Sounds like a good idea, but it could get expensive if I were to 'improve' things a bit too much in the wrong direction. JT ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 16:58:14 -0900 (AKST) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu From: "Juan A. Goula" Subject: Motorcycle Show At 06:21 PM 12/4/95 -0800, you wrote: >Juan, > >Dave & I will _definitely_ be there. Either day is fine. I'll be there on the 14th (Sunday), probably around noon. I'll probably be wearing a T-shirt with some picture about the Tanacross, AK Road Race. See you there! Juan ------------------------------------------------------------------ It is a well known fact that Alaskans do not tan. Instead, they just thaw... Juan A. Goula School of Fisheries & Ocean Sciences University of Alaska Fairbanks AMA # 532390 \\\\ HSTA # 4995RG 1990 Honda PC800 \\\\ 1993 Arctic Cat Panther DLX ----------------------------------------------------------------- (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Tue, 5 Dec 1995 18:26:34 -0800 ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Tue, 5 Dec 1995 18:26:34 -0800 To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu From: slgross@halcyon.com (Steve Gross) Subject: Re: coolant removal Welcome, Richard! Government Computer system, eh? it's throwing wierd characters in, but the message got through. Here's another hint for coolant change-out -- Let the Honda service guys do it :) *** Steve Gross, Seattle, WA Talk is cheap, until you hire a lawyer. *** with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 06 Dec 1995 07:58:12 -0700 ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Wed, 06 Dec 1995 08:04:21 -0700 From: Neill Thompson To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Subject: Hot weather riding---was Re: PC800 at -30F -Reply >>> Juan A. Goula 12/04/95 07:37pm >>> At 04:12 PM 12/4/95 -0600, you wrote: But enough about the cold. How about if you warm-to-hot weather riders tell us about how you equip yourselves to cope with the conditions? I mean, it's easy to put more gear on, but you can only take so much off! ; - ) Anyone with an air conditioner on their PC? >>> No air conditioner but some observations. I never could understand the concept of a convection oven until I rode a motorcycle in Arizona. I was always thinking of wind chill and that moving air would always cool. Not so! I find that when the air temperature is greater than body temperature, the convection oven effect kicks in. In this case, the warmth from the environment is driven into you as opposed from your body heat being blown away from you. The irony is that many people who have not experienced this first hand assume that wearing a helmet in high heat would be hotter. In truth it is much hotter with out the helmet since the helmet keeps the hot wind off of your head. Likewise, long pants and sleeves are cooler. All this is even more important after considering the possibility of sunburn. Sunburn can happen to fair, unprotected skin at noon on a summer day in just over 10 minutes. Sometimes, I use SPF 35 or higher which I refer to as liquid siding. with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 06 Dec 1995 08:11:36 -0700 ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Wed, 06 Dec 1995 08:17:36 -0700 From: Neill Thompson To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Subject: Re: Gas gauge -Reply >>> Mark J. Lucas 12/05/95 05:04am >>> Hummmmm, sounds like alot of work on the fuel tank. I just keep riding the thing and watching the gas guage. Haven't run it dry, yet, but I did put 3.8 gallons in it once. Hope that is as low as I ever get. >>> I just put 4.2+ gallons in my tank at the last fill up. Watch the gauge as I described in my previous post and watch the trip odometer. If you do similar types of riding (ie. commuting, or touring) often enough your experience should enable you to cut it very close. A liter bottle of fuel in the trunk (about 10 miles worth) can give you even greater confidence. ;-) Per Kent's experience of coasting (no pun intended) into gas stations. One time in a cage, I coasted into a gas station and right up to the pump. The attendant came out and told me that the pump was out of order and I would have to move to another island. I had to push the car. 06 Dec 1995 03:11:04 -0600 (CST) 06 Dec 1995 17:07:53 +0800 ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Wed, 06 Dec 1995 17:07:53 +0000 (WST) From: pckwong@hkuxa.hku.hk (VR2XVI) Subject: Years To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Out of curious, I noticed my service manual that it's for 89-90, 94-96. Are there a major difference between 89-90 94-96 & 91-93? Happy Pacific Coasting! -- **************************************************************************** * Philips Wong, '84 HONDA GL1200A <-- Wow! * * VR2XVI <-- HAM Gold Wing Aspencade * * PCA420 <-- Royal Hong Kong '90 HONDA PC800 white <-- Lexus 2 tone * * Aux. Police '90 HONDA PC800 red <-- Little Wing * * 101177 <-- GWRRA # Yeh I got a real wing at rear * * * * Police Training School taught : HONDA CBX750 <-- Police bike * * " I have the honor to be, Sir, YAMA Diversion 600 <-- Police bike * * your obedient servant!" YAMA SR250 <-- Police junk * * * **************************************************************************** * Will work for gas & chrome, I've an old Wing, and 2 baby Wings at home. * **************************************************************************** by Post-Office.UH.EDU (PMDF V5.0-5 #8380) 06 Dec 1995 02:14:49 -0600 (CST) by mail.pixi.com (8.6.12/SMI-4.1) with SMTP id WAA05397 for ; Tue, 05 Dec 1995 22:13:26 -1000 ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 22:13:26 -1000 From: reap@pixi.com (Ronald E. Pacholec) Subject: Aloha Nui, Juan! To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Hey Juan, >I bet most bikes in Hawaii are low mileage. How do they fare with the salt >air though? >Summer of '94 I saw a '94 PC with Hawaii plates. The guy had two or three >antennas >sticking out the back from under his cover. Must have been expensive to ship >it over here! >(or maybe those bolt on pontoons I keep hearing about) : - ) > Though I haven't had this PC for very long (since April) The salt doesn't seem to bother it much because of the total plastic covering. Most of us live within a mile or two of the surf, so we're in a constant salt aerosol. But the covering does seem to protect. When I had my other bike ('83 Sabre 750) here, the salt was much more of a problem because of all the exposed metal. Actually, on both bikes, the intense sun seems to be more of a problem,. But this is usually just on the cosmetic parts. You know, though it costs about $300-400 to ship back to the mainland, Hawaii is a great place for a second market on upscale vehicles. If there's not much salt damage, the miles are low, the speeds are low, and there aren't large swings of temperature. The prices on upper scale vehicles are also low compared to the mainland. When i got my PC I also bought a '77 Rolls Royce Silver Shadow, in mint condition with only 45K original miles on it. It was in storage for 15 years. Even with the shipping charges to the mainland, this place has a great second buyers market. >How would you rate the islands as far as quality/quantity of roads? The >only one >I've been on is Maui. Quantity of roads - there ain't much. We don't even have 60 miles of Interstate freeway (a real misnomer for here. You can't even go Interisland, much less Interstate!) Most islands have a road that goes around the island near the surf. Mostly undivided, one lane in each direction. In addition, there are some radial roads roads going from the surf inland, up the rises and mountains. The rises, even those above Honolulu, reach 1.5K-2K ft vertical over 1-2 mi horizontal. If you remember Maui, there are the coastal roads and the Wailuku - Kiehe road, with only a couple of roads going up Haleakala, and up the West Maui rises. They're in generally good condition, kinda like the back roads of Northern California. The speeds are mostly 35-45 on most of the roads. I can't roam lots of new back roads like I could in California, or as someone wrote on San Diego. So mostly I take the same roads and pass the same places, but it's as far from boring as it can possibly be. I find much more diversity and "newness" of experience along the same ol' Hawaii roads than I did exploring in Northern California. Though the geography's the same, the sky, clouds, and sunsets are all each unique. You see the same mountains, but the way the clouds scrape against them and fill the valley is different each day. The colors of the ocean change constantly, as well as the fragrances of the flowers. Even the feel of the air against the skin changes, sometimes cool and dry, sometimes warm, moist and salty, sometimes steamy. (Our ave. humidity is only in the 50's and 60's) Put an S.O. on the back of the bike and ride on the full moon along the windward coast, past the cliffs and lighthouses, and you're in HEAVEN! In fact, we're coming up on a full moon, so I'll go out for a ride tonight or tomorrow. Hawaii's almost like being in a foreign country (but you can drink the water). There is an indigenous language that's actually spoken and sung. Most of the street, road, and place names are in Hawaiian. (Kalanianaole and Kamehameha highways, Keamouku and Pu'uikena Street, Kapiolani Blvd.) This is the land of Aloha and pidgin, so "Mo betta yu come see Bro!" Aloha Nui, Ron reap@pixi.com by Post-Office.UH.EDU (PMDF V5.0-5 #8380) 05 Dec 1995 20:59:22 -0600 (CST) (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Tue, 05 Dec 1995 18:57:57 -0800 ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 18:57:57 -0800 From: slgross@halcyon.com (Steve Gross) Subject: Re: Windshield Option To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu >Speeds under 65mph: My passenger will attest that a +4" Rifle was a big >improvement over the short stock '89 shield. She can . . . talk on the intercom in a normal voice. Bryce, this is good because????? :) I find the best thing about riding is the peace and quiet! (OK, so now Leanne's gonna kill me.... She just needs to get her own bike!) *** Steve Gross, Seattle, WA Talk is cheap, until you hire a lawyer. *** 05 Dec 1995 21:17:06 -0600 (CST) id WAA13427 for pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu; Tue, 05 Dec 1995 22:15:41 -0500 ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 22:15:41 -0500 From: HTBIII@aol.com Subject: Re: HOT GRIPS/OIL LEAK To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu In a message dated 95-12-02 00:45:33 EST, Michael Keller wrote: >What about >the bar end weights? Did they interfere with installation? Nope. I use a hole saw to drill out the ends of the hot grips & they installed easy. Be careful to center the bit corretly so you don't cut the wires that run through the grips. It's not hard though (if I can do it...). Tom Byron (htbiii@aol.com) P.S: It looks like Juan handled it the same way, but with slightly more sophistication (he just answers his e-mail more quickly than I do): >Bar end weights are not a problem, I used a drill hole saw to cut a 7/8" hole out the >end of the grip (careful you don't cut into the resistance wires!) and a Dremel tool >to grind away the knobs from the plastic throttle liner. Other than that, fairly >strightforward. 05 Dec 1995 21:36:07 -0600 (CST) (jpalfery.atw.fullfeed.com [199.201.127.200]) by peter.atw.fullfeed.com (8.6.9/8.6.9) with SMTP id VAA16522 for ; Tue, 05 Dec 1995 21:34:39 -0600 ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 21:31:19 +0000 From: John Palfery Subject: RE: Gas gauge To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Priority: normal Comments: Authenticated sender is > Date: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 08:51:10 -0900 (AKST) > From: "Juan A. Goula" > Subject: RE: Gas gauge > To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu > Reply-to: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu > At 09:32 PM 12/4/95 -0600, you wrote: > > >Every PC that I've seen (pre-'94) also has a problem with the little > >cap that fits between the scoop you guys are talking about and the > >windscreen. The problem is where it meets the sides of the cowling > >just above the mirrors. It's supposed to wrap over the top of the > >cowling just outside the edge of the windscreen, but the outside > >edges just never quite hold. > >Yup! Mine too, you can play arround with it and get some improvement at the risk of cracking the hole where the attachment screw fits. John ________________________________________________________ John Palfery jpalfer@mail.atw.fullfeed.com 05 Dec 1995 22:51:12 -0600 (CST) ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 22:50:16 -0600 (CST) From: kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu (Kent Polk) Subject: Re: Gas gauge (from JTSMCRIDER@aol.com) (at Tue, 05 Dec 1995 16:16:49 -0500) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Hi JTSMCRIDER (JTSMCRIDER), in <951205161649_45381450@emout04.mail.aol.com> on Dec 05 you wrote: > Hi Kent: > > >I ended up taking a solder iron and improving on the 'latch' design a bit. > > How about a few more details on your improvements. Sounds like a good idea, > but it could get expensive if I were to 'improve' things a bit too much in > the wrong direction. Just moved the plastic around a bit. There already is somewhat of a latch mechanism, but it's just too small to hold the plastic together under the stress it sees. I.e. Something's a bit too tight on the bike in that area. I've put the thing together about 5 different ways and I just can't see a way to relieve enough stress to keep the two together for very long. On the bottom part I pushed the top edge rearward and on the top part I 'scooped' a little bit out of the center of the bend and pushed it down. ------ ------ ------ | / / || \ \ \\ | | | | | | Orig. Mods Latched Make sure you don't goo too deep with the iron. I did and went through the thing. Quick thinking (and some hot fingers) made it so you have to look pretty close to see it though. Kent Polk: Southwest Research Institute Internet : kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu 06 Dec 1995 09:32:11 -0600 (CST) ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Wed, 06 Dec 1995 09:31:16 -0600 (CST) From: kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu (Kent Polk) Subject: Re: Years (from pckwong@hkuxa.hku.hk (VR2XVI)) (at Wed, 06 Dec 1995 17:07:53 +0000 (WST)) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Hi VR2XVI (VR2XVI), in <9512060907.AA19147@hkuxa.hku.hk> on Dec 06 you wrote: > Out of curious, I noticed my service manual that it's for 89-90, 94-96. > Are there a major difference between 89-90 94-96 & 91-93? For one, the 91-93 manual would have a lot of blank pages since there were no PCs made during that timeframe. Kent Polk: Southwest Research Institute Internet : kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: David_McCarthy-RXYH90@email.sps.mot.com Date: 6 Dec 95 08:57:00 -0600 To: pckwong@hkuxa.hku.hk, pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Subject: Re: Years The significant differences were between the 89 and 90 model years. Approximately 60 different changes. The 94, 95 & 96 models are esentially the same as the 90 except for color. David ===================================== Apparently-To: RXYH90@email.sps.mot.com Out of curious, I noticed my service manual that it's for 89-90, 94-96. Are there a major difference between 89-90 94-96 & 91-93? Happy Pacific Coasting! -- **************************************************************************** * Philips Wong, '84 HONDA GL1200A <-- Wow! * * VR2XVI <-- HAM Gold Wing Aspencade * * PCA420 <-- Royal Hong Kong '90 HONDA PC800 white <-- Lexus 2 tone * * Aux. Police '90 HONDA PC800 red <-- Little Wing * * 101177 <-- GWRRA # Yeh I got a real wing at rear * * * * Police Training School taught : HONDA CBX750 <-- Police bike * * " I have the honor to be, Sir, YAMA Diversion 600 <-- Police bike * * your obedient servant!" YAMA SR250 <-- Police junk * * * **************************************************************************** * Will work for gas & chrome, I've an old Wing, and 2 baby Wings at home. * **************************************************************************** ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: David_McCarthy-RXYH90@email.sps.mot.com Date: 6 Dec 95 09:03:00 -0600 To: slgross@halcyon.com, pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Subject: Re[2]: Windshield Option The ads have the hieghts stated in overall hieght. Which one is the +2 and +4? Apparently-To: RXYH90@email.sps.mot.com >Speeds under 65mph: My passenger will attest that a +4" Rifle was a big >improvement over the short stock '89 shield. She can . . . talk on the intercom in a normal voice. Bryce, this is good because????? :) I find the best thing about riding is the peace and quiet! (OK, so now Leanne's gonna kill me.... She just needs to get her own bike!) *** Steve Gross, Seattle, WA Talk is cheap, until you hire a lawyer. *** ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Wed, 6 Dec 95 11:26:24 est From: Roger_Prince@DGC.MCEO.DG.COM To: (Kent_Polk)_kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu Cc: "pc800"@MSC.MCEO.DG.COM Subject: Reply to: Re: Gas gauge ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: Roger Prince:DGC Date: ## 12/06/95 11:30 ## Yours must not have been too far off for the plastic to withstand the pressure created by the "latch". What's frustrating about the whole thing is Honda only had to lengthen the garnish a minute amount to make it work. Thanks for the tip. Roger ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: (Kent Polk) kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu:dg-smtp Date: ## 12/05/95 22:50 ## Hi JTSMCRIDER (JTSMCRIDER), in <951205161649_45381450@emout04.mail.aol.com> on Dec 05 you wrote: > Hi Kent: > > >I ended up taking a solder iron and improving on the 'latch' design a bit. > > How about a few more details on your improvements. Sounds like a good idea, > but it could get expensive if I were to 'improve' things a bit too much in > the wrong direction. Just moved the plastic around a bit. There already is somewhat of a latch mechanism, but it's just too small to hold the plastic together under the stress it sees. I.e. Something's a bit too tight on the bike in that area. I've put the thing together about 5 different ways and I just can't see a way to relieve enough stress to keep the two together for very long. On the bottom part I pushed the top edge rearward and on the top part I 'scooped' a little bit out of the center of the bend and pushed it down. ------ ------ ------ | / / || \ \ \\ | | | | | | Orig. Mods Latched Make sure you don't goo too deep with the iron. I did and went through the thing. Quick thinking (and some hot fingers) made it so you have to look pretty close to see it though. Kent Polk: Southwest Research Institute Comments: Authenticated sender is ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: "John Palfery" To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 12:00:02 +0000 Subject: Re: Years Priority: normal On Wed, 06 Dec 1995 17:07:53 +0000 (WST) pckwong@hkuxa.hku.hk wrote > Out of curious, I noticed my service manual that it's for 89-90, 94-96. > Are there a major difference between 89-90 94-96 & 91-93? Don't think they imported the PC into the USA 91-93, think that's the only reason for the manual date coverage. There may be some differences between 89-90 models and 94-96 models though. I don't know what the difference are. John ________________________________________________________ John Palfery jpalfer@mail.atw.fullfeed.com ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 09:10:53 -0900 (AKST) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu From: "Juan A. Goula" Subject: Re: Hot weather riding---was Re: PC800 at -30F -Reply At 08:04 AM 12/6/95 -0700, you wrote: > >>>> Juan A. Goula 12/04/95 07:37pm >>> >All this is even more important after considering the possibility of >sunburn. Sunburn can happen to fair, unprotected skin at noon on a >summer day in just over 10 minutes. Sometimes, I use SPF 35 or higher >which I refer to as liquid siding. All very true, will have to keep it in mind for next summer's ride. Liquid siding... I like the term! : - ) ------------------------------------------------------------------ It is a well known fact that Alaskans do not tan. Instead, they just thaw... Juan A. Goula School of Fisheries & Ocean Sciences University of Alaska Fairbanks AMA # 532390 \\\\ HSTA # 4995RG 1990 Honda PC800 \\\\ 1993 Arctic Cat Panther DLX ----------------------------------------------------------------- ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 09:17:14 -0900 (AKST) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu From: "Juan A. Goula" Subject: Years At 05:07 PM 12/6/95 +0000, you wrote: >Out of curious, I noticed my service manual that it's for 89-90, 94-96. >Are there a major difference between 89-90 94-96 & 91-93? Honda claims that between '89 and '90 there were over 90 minor diferences. I have noticed a few between Cory's ('89) and mine ('90). Nothing major. Between '90 and '96 all that has changed are the colors -and the price! : - O '91 through '93 the bike was not sold in the US. Juan ------------------------------------------------------------------ It is a well known fact that Alaskans do not tan. Instead, they just thaw... Juan A. Goula School of Fisheries & Ocean Sciences University of Alaska Fairbanks AMA # 532390 \\\\ HSTA # 4995RG 1990 Honda PC800 \\\\ 1993 Arctic Cat Panther DLX ----------------------------------------------------------------- Comments: Authenticated sender is ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: "John Palfery" To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 12:17:14 +0000 Subject: Re: coolant removal Priority: normal > Date: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 18:26:34 -0800 > From: slgross@halcyon.com (Steve Gross) > Here's another hint for coolant change-out -- Let the Honda service guys do > it :) Now Steve ! Where's the fun in THAT?? John ________________________________________________________ John Palfery jpalfer@mail.atw.fullfeed.com ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 11:12:12 -0800 To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu From: Spencer Farrow Subject: Re: Years Hi Gang - I know that one of the (relatively minor) differences between the '89 (white) and '90 (red) PC's, other than color, was that some of the fairing attachments were improved. (More of 'em, I believe.) There are a couple other changes, which I cannot recall....... Cheers - Spencer Spencer Farrow '86 Concours - The Grey Ghost COG # 2014 AMA # 606675 sfarrow@radford.com ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 15:26:39 +0800 To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu From: paledet@cln.etc.bc.ca (paul ledet) Subject: Re: removal I am finding that I am getting overloaded as well. Please forward to my email or onto the list the instructions for unsubscribing. ***************************** * R. Paul Ledet * * Stelly's Secondary School * * Brentwood Bay B.C. * *paledet@cl.etc.bc.ca * ***************************** ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 19:18:17 -0500 From: Dentman711@aol.com To: pc800@hpc.uh.edu Subject: Why didn't Honda make the PC in 91-93? Just trying to catch up with the Jonses. ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 15:39:57 -0900 (AKST) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu From: "Juan A. Goula" Subject: Re: Why didn't Honda make the PC in 91-93? At 07:18 PM 12/6/95 -0500, you wrote: >Just trying to catch up with the Jonses. Hard to believe, but... nobody wanted the things! Weird (then) styling and an outrageous price kept buyers away. Honda realized they goofed and stopped US sales. Then dealers started discounting them and more people found out what a wonderful bike the PC really is. Now that more are selling Honda believes that the '96 $8,699.00 asking price must be a fair deal. = : - O Juan ------------------------------------------------------------------ It is a well known fact that Alaskans do not tan. Instead, they just thaw... Juan A. Goula School of Fisheries & Ocean Sciences University of Alaska Fairbanks AMA # 532390 \\\\ HSTA # 4995RG 1990 Honda PC800 \\\\ 1993 Arctic Cat Panther DLX ----------------------------------------------------------------- ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 15:50:32 -0900 (AKST) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu From: "Juan A. Goula" Subject: Re: PC800 at -30F >Yep. A leather jacket with a light cotton long-sleeved shirt. >I.e. a portable swamp cooler. Works great unless you're riding >in 100% humidity 110+ degrees, such as Del Rio, Texas often has. :^( >I've ridden in 120 degrees bundled up that way and stayed a lot >more comfortable than sitting under a shade tree at those temps. >Of course, part of what makes the A/C work is to make sure you >stay mentally relaxed. :^) Say Kent, how does the T-shit become a swamp? Do you wet actively, with water, or passively, with sweat? (yuk!) : - ) Summer of '94 I rode with a friend in NoCal, SF area and north, during the heat wave they had back then. We were supposed to go to Steamboat Springs for the Rider Rally but decided against it when the temperature rose to 105F 30 miles inland (I know, I know, what a pair of wimps. Hey, we're from Alaska, remember?). Instead we stuck to the (relatively) cool coastline. That trip was a blast! Anyway, my then new jacket was the first one I had owned that was equiped with cooling vents. Now I'll never buy one with out them, even if they are about 40% effective behind the PC fairing. Coupled with a wet shirt (yes, water) it made the trip quite enjoyable. Juan ------------------------------------------------------------------ It is a well known fact that Alaskans do not tan. Instead, they just thaw... Juan A. Goula School of Fisheries & Ocean Sciences University of Alaska Fairbanks AMA # 532390 \\\\ HSTA # 4995RG 1990 Honda PC800 \\\\ 1993 Arctic Cat Panther DLX ----------------------------------------------------------------- 06 Dec 1995 17:09:32 -0700 (PDT) ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Wed, 06 Dec 1995 17:06:03 -0700 From: _spain@edsug.com (Harrison Spain) Subject: Loud shifting noise (oil viscosity?) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu I have a complaint (albiet minor) about the PC800 :-). The shifting is too noisy! I like a small 'snick' or even a 'clunk' but the PC800 kinda clatters when I shift. This happens when I upshift especially. I suspect my oil viscosity but wanted to check with the experts :-). I'm using 10-W-40 made for motorcycles. Since I only ride when it is between 40-90 degrees F, perhaps I should be using a heavier oil? | Harrison M. Spain | Voice: (714) 952-6114 | | Systems Support Manager | Fax: (714) 952-5371 | | EDS Unigraphics | Internet: _spain@ug.eds.com | | Cypress, CA 90630 | UUCP: ...uunet!ug!_spain | 06 Dec 1995 17:16:17 -0700 (PDT) ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Wed, 06 Dec 1995 17:12:48 -0700 From: _spain@edsug.com (Harrison Spain) Subject: Re: SAENG Stealth Edging To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu >> will give another inch or two of smooth air up top, I would give it a try. >> What is the concensus? Is it worth the $1/inch or whatever they're asking >> for it now? I've become so used to my edging that I don't want to take it off to check the difference. It will not remove all the noise (your mileage may vary). I've heard from someone who did remove the edging and put it right back on :-). I guess I'm more frustrated by my helmet design that is quieter (by a LOT) when the face shield is up rather than down! | Harrison M. Spain | Voice: (714) 952-6114 | | Systems Support Manager | Fax: (714) 952-5371 | | EDS Unigraphics | Internet: _spain@ug.eds.com | | Cypress, CA 90630 | UUCP: ...uunet!ug!_spain | ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 16:28:38 -0900 (AKST) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu From: "Juan A. Goula" Subject: Island motoring Hello Ron, At 10:13 PM 12/5/95 -1000, you wrote: >Though I haven't had this PC for very long (since April) The salt doesn't >seem to bother it much because of the total plastic covering. Most of us >live within a mile or two of the surf, so we're in a constant salt aerosol. >But the covering does seem to protect. When I had my other bike ('83 >Sabre 750) here, the salt was much more of a problem because of all the >exposed metal. I though there might be some concern about the bodywork doing more hiding than protecting, but from waht you say it may not be as bad as I think. >Actually, on both bikes, the intense sun seems to be more >of a problem,. But this is usually just on the cosmetic parts. Ha! Yet another advantage of living at high latitudes. Sun isn't much of a problem, for the three whole months you have to worry about it. : - ) >You know, >though it costs about $300-400 to ship back to the mainland, Hawaii is a >great place for a second market on upscale vehicles. That's cheap. I would have to pay 600 to 1000 to ship my bike down to Seattle, and that's by barge! >... there aren't large swings of temperature... Good point. >Quantity of roads - there ain't much. We don't even have 60 miles of >Interstate freeway (a real misnomer for here. You can't even go >Interisland, much less Interstate!) Is there an inter-island ferry? ... If you remember >Maui, there are the coastal roads and the Wailuku - Kiehe road, Yes, the amount of traffic drove me nuts! Fortunately the scenery keeps you entretained : - ) >couple of roads going up Haleakala I would love to try this one on the PC, and the road to Hana on a dual-sport. >I can't roam lots of new back roads like I could in California, or >as someone wrote on San Diego. So mostly I take the same roads and pass >the same places, but it's as far from boring as it can possibly be. I find >much more diversity and "newness" of experience along the same ol' Hawaii >roads... Sounds like Hawaii and Alaska have a few things in common. We do not have many roads here (heck, not even _one_ interstate!) and we are also quite isolated. We do at least have the option of driving out of here if needed (or desired). Not sure if I could live in a place where that was not an option. >Put an S.O. on the back of the bike and ride on the full moon along >the windward coast, past the cliffs and lighthouses, and you're in >HEAVEN! In fact, we're coming up on a full moon, so I'll go out for >a ride tonight or tomorrow. Sounds like fun! > This is the land of Aloha and pidgin, so "Mo betta yu come see Bro!" Soon as I can afford it Ron, soon as I can afford it... > Aloha Nui, > >Ron Same to you Juan ------------------------------------------------------------------ It is a well known fact that Alaskans do not tan. Instead, they just thaw... Juan A. Goula School of Fisheries & Ocean Sciences University of Alaska Fairbanks AMA # 532390 \\\\ HSTA # 4995RG 1990 Honda PC800 \\\\ 1993 Arctic Cat Panther DLX ----------------------------------------------------------------- ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 16:35:53 -0900 (AKST) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu From: "Juan A. Goula" Subject: Re: Loud shifting noise (oil viscosity?) At 05:06 PM 12/6/95 -0700, you wrote: >I have a complaint (albiet minor) about the PC800 :-). The shifting is too >noisy! I like a small 'snick' or even a 'clunk' but the PC800 kinda >clatters when I shift. This happens when I upshift especially. Could it be that the bodywork is acting like a sound box, amplifying everything? >I suspect my oil viscosity but wanted to check with the experts :-). I'm >using 10-W-40 made for motorcycles. Since I only ride when it is between >40-90 degrees F, perhaps I should be using a heavier oil? I use 15W50 with no complaints, even at below 40F rides (it is synthetic though) Lots of people comment on how Golden Spectro oil improves the behaviour of gearboxes. Might want to give that a try. Good luck. Juan ------------------------------------------------------------------ It is a well known fact that Alaskans do not tan. Instead, they just thaw... Juan A. Goula School of Fisheries & Ocean Sciences University of Alaska Fairbanks AMA # 532390 \\\\ HSTA # 4995RG 1990 Honda PC800 \\\\ 1993 Arctic Cat Panther DLX ----------------------------------------------------------------- ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 20:37:22 -0500 From: RETREADNY@aol.com To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Subject: Re: Gas gauge In a message dated 95-12-05 10:15:27 EST, you write: >That still gives me a 10+ mile >reserve. Plenty of time to look for a station under normal circumstances. > > Not out here in the country !!!! Wes St.Onge RETREADNY@aol.com ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: pckwong@hkuxa.hku.hk (VR2XVI) Subject: Re: Years To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Date: Thu, 7 Dec 95 10:26:42 WST > For one, the 91-93 manual would have a lot of blank pages since > there were no PCs made during that timeframe. Not actually, I saw a '92 PC800 (Japanese domestic model) here in Hong Kong, metallic grey/silver bottom, with different decal on front lower fairing, instead of "HONDA", it adds small characters "SPORT TOURER" below. And, all warning stickers are in Japanese. -- **************************************************************************** * Philips Wong, '84 HONDA GL1200A <-- Wow! * * VR2XVI <-- HAM Gold Wing Aspencade * * PCA420 <-- Royal Hong Kong '90 HONDA PC800 white <-- Lexus 2 tone * * Aux. Police '90 HONDA PC800 red <-- Little Wing * * 101177 <-- GWRRA # Yeh I got a real wing at rear * * * * Police Training School taught : HONDA CBX750 <-- Police bike * * " I have the honor to be, Sir, YAMA Diversion 600 <-- Police bike * * your obedient servant!" YAMA SR250 <-- Police junk * * * **************************************************************************** * Will work for gas & chrome, I've an old Wing, and 2 baby Wings at home. * **************************************************************************** (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Wed, 6 Dec 1995 18:29:40 -0800 ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 18:29:40 -0800 To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu From: slgross@halcyon.com (Steve Gross) Subject: Re: coolant removal >> Date: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 18:26:34 -0800 >> From: slgross@halcyon.com (Steve Gross) > > > >> Here's another hint for coolant change-out -- Let the Honda service guys do >> it :) > >Now Steve ! Where's the fun in THAT?? >John >________________________________________________________ >John Palfery jpalfer@mail.atw.fullfeed.com John -- Time riding vs. time getting greasy. Besides, you get to sit on all the new bikes while yours is in the shop! Steve *** Steve Gross, Seattle, WA Talk is cheap, until you hire a lawyer. *** Comments: Authenticated sender is ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: "Michael S. Keller" To: "Juan A. Goula" , pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 21:42:10 -0600 Subject: Engine warmth (was: Loud shifting noise (oil viscosity?)) Priority: normal > >I suspect my oil viscosity but wanted to check with the experts > >:-). I'm using 10-W-40 made for motorcycles. Since I only ride > >when it is between 40-90 degrees F, perhaps I should be using a > >heavier oil? > > I use 15W50 with no complaints, even at below 40F rides (it is > synthetic though) Lots of people comment on how Golden Spectro oil > improves the behaviour of gearboxes. Might want to give that a try. > Good luck. Juan, Do you have an engine heater (aka "electric dipstick")? If so, what brand? -Michael [AB5EL] mskeller@ionet.net michael.keller@paranet.com Tulsa, Oklahoma, USA, Earth, Sol System, Orion Arm. . . . ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 00:50:57 -0500 From: SethMiller@aol.com To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Subject: Re: removal In a message dated 95-12-06 18:27:23 EST, you write: >I am finding that I am getting overloaded as well. Please forward to my >email or onto the list the instructions for unsubscribing. >***************************** >* R. Paul Ledet * >* Stelly's Secondary School * >* Brentwood Bay B.C. * >*paledet@cl.etc.bc.ca * >***************************** Yeah, me too... someone please post the unsubcribe command to the list for all to see... Thanks - ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** To: pc800@hpc.uh.edu Subject: Re: removal Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 01:17:27 -0600 From: Jason L Tibbitts III Well, it seems folks didn't bother to save the message they got when they signed on to the list. It had all of the instructions you need. In any case, to unsubscribe send a message containing the line unsubscribe pc800 to majordomo@hpc.uh.edu. If you've somehow changed your address such that the list software can't figure out who to unsubscribe, supply the address in the message just after the pc800 (on the same line, and do leave a space). If you want more information on how to use the list software, send just the word "help" in a message to majordomo@hpc.uh.edu. - J< (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Wed, 6 Dec 1995 23:51:58 -0800 ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Wed, 6 Dec 1995 23:51:58 -0800 To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu From: dkgross@halcyon.com (David Gross) Subject: Re: removal yeah..right jason. we SAVE the messages..heheheeee ------------ Dave Gross & Baron George Von Helldog "It's gotta groove..." ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 02:17:13 -0800 From: lucas.m@ix.netcom.com (Mark J. Lucas ) Subject: Re: Years To: pc800@hpc.uh.edu >Out of curious, I noticed my service manual that it's for 89-90, 94-96. >Are there a major difference between 89-90 94-96 & 91-93? > >Happy Pacific Coasting! Yes, the 93-94 manual has a sticker on the outside that covers up the 89-90 words and the part number for the manual itself is different. They sure made alot of changes huh? ;) -- Ride in peace, Mark lucas.m@ix.netcom.com DoD# 1827 AMA# 697583 '84 Kawasaki 305 => '94 Honda Shadow VLX => '95 Honda Pacific Coast ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 06:29:27 -0600 Thu, 7 Dec 1995 7:28:48 -0500 (EST) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu From: "Waldo E. Meeks" Subject: Re: Loud shifting noise (oil viscosity?) At 05:06 PM 12/6/95 -0700, you wrote: >I have a complaint (albiet minor) about the PC800 :-). The shifting is too >noisy! I like a small 'snick' or even a 'clunk' but the PC800 kinda >clatters when I shift. This happens when I upshift especially. > >I suspect my oil viscosity but wanted to check with the experts :-). I'm >using 10-W-40 made for motorcycles. Since I only ride when it is between >40-90 degrees F, perhaps I should be using a heavier oil? I use Castrol GTX 5-50 synthetic. Shifts easy and quiet. Waldo ============================== Dr. Waldo E. Meeks Manufacturing Program Coordinator/ Professor - Industrial Management Allen E. Paulson College of Science and Technology LB# 8047 Georgia Southern University Statesboro, GA 30460 (912)681-5828 FAX (912)871-1853 ============================== ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Thu, 7 Dec 95 07:49:20 est From: Roger_Prince@DGC.MCEO.DG.COM To: "pc800"@MSC.MCEO.DG.COM Subject: Forwarded: Re: Years ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: Roger Prince:DGC Date: ## 12/07/95 07:53 ## The color in here accounts for some of the many colors I found in the 89-96 microfiche. I wonder what countries got the other colors, e.g. Maruem Blue or Dark Blue. What would Ivory Yellow look like, I wonder? Roger CEO document contents: > For one, the 91-93 manual would have a lot of blank pages since > there were no PCs made during that timeframe. Not actually, I saw a '92 PC800 (Japanese domestic model) here in Hong Kong, metallic grey/silver bottom, with different decal on front lower fairing, instead of "HONDA", it adds small characters "SPORT TOURER" below. And, all warning stickers are in Japanese. -- **************************************************************************** * Philips Wong, '84 HONDA GL1200A <-- Wow! * * VR2XVI <-- HAM Gold Wing Aspencade * * PCA420 <-- Royal Hong Kong '90 HONDA PC800 white <-- Lexus 2 tone * * Aux. Police '90 HONDA PC800 red <-- Little Wing * * 101177 <-- GWRRA # Yeh I got a real wing at rear * * * * Police Training School taught : HONDA CBX750 <-- Police bike * * " I have the honor to be, Sir, YAMA Diversion 600 <-- Police bike * * your obedient servant!" YAMA SR250 <-- Police junk * * * **************************************************************************** * Will work for gas & chrome, I've an old Wing, and 2 baby Wings at home. * **************************************************************************** ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu (Kent Polk) Subject: Re: PC800 at -30F (from "Juan A. Goula" ) (at Wed, 06 Dec 1995 15:50:32 -0900 (AKST)) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Date: Thu, 7 Dec 95 09:37:37 CST Hi Juan (Juan A. Goula), in <199512070050.PAA15796@jarvis.ims.alaska.edu> on Dec 06 you wrote: > Say Kent, how does the T-shit become a swamp? Do you wet actively, with > water, or passively, with sweat? (yuk!) : - ) I would dress in a manner somewhat similar to that in a desert. I don't remove clothing. I restrict airflow and the sun's access to my body. I wear gloves, a very light cotton long-sleeved shirt (not a t-shirt), and close the jacket up when it gets *real* hot. I carry water such that I can sip on it every so often. I usually swallow half of what I sip and keep the remainder in my mouth, party to make sure I keep my mouth closed. :^) When I sweat, the cotton shirt absorbs the sweat and the little bit of airflow I allow uses that sweat in the shirt to cool me off. This is for temps above 110 deg. and works pretty good for the 125 deg that I have ridden this way. As I mentioned earlier, it works better than sitting in 110 deg. shade. For lower temperatures and riding in traffic, I open things up since staying hydrated isn't quite so critical. I only add water when the humidity is around 100%. Kent Polk: Southwest Research Institute Internet : kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu 07 Dec 1995 09:54:01 -0600 (CST) ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Thu, 07 Dec 1995 09:52:47 -0600 (CST) From: kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu (Kent Polk) Subject: Re: Loud shifting noise (oil viscosity?) (from _spain@edsug.com (Harrison Spain)) (at Wed, 06 Dec 1995 17:06:03 -0700) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Hi Harrison (Harrison Spain), in on Dec 06 you wrote: > I have a complaint (albiet minor) about the PC800 :-). The shifting is too > noisy! I like a small 'snick' or even a 'clunk' but the PC800 kinda > clatters when I shift. This happens when I upshift especially. The PC has a 'hefty' transmission that requires 'hefty' action. Don't dilly-dally when shifting or you'll start really clattering the tranny. > I suspect my oil viscosity but wanted to check with the experts :-). I'm > using 10-W-40 made for motorcycles. Since I only ride when it is between > 40-90 degrees F, perhaps I should be using a heavier oil? I use Mobil1 15-50 for those temps. Often, older engines seem to have a bit of difficulty switching to Mobil1, but it seems that if you start with it early on, you won't have problems and the percentage of bikes that have problems with it (clutch problems) is very small. As to 'why Mobil 1'... well, the Inst. has extensive independent lubricant/ engine testing laboratories which just about all the major engine manuf use (including some moto engines). While the Inst. can't promote anything, I'll just say that I use Mobil1 for a darned good reason. :^) BTW, don't use oil 'enhancer' additives... especially anything with Teflon in it. Dupont had to be sued to get them to sell Teflon to be used in an engine lubricant. Again, for a good reason... Kent Polk: Southwest Research Institute Internet : kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Thu, 7 Dec 1995 11:17:12 -0500 From: JeffHO@aol.com To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Subject: Rifle endorsements I'll just ditto Jan's comments on the Rifle shield except that a) I did have to enlarge one of the mounting holes to make it fit b) I haven't yet noticed any shrinking from my 6'1" c) I got the +4" shield--suppose I don't have to crouch as much to look through the shield (Jan: posture, posture :) ) By the way, Jan, what intercom do you have? Recommend it? My little brother just visited, and we had a great ride around metro Boston, undeterred by 40 degree weather. Rifle gave him good protection, and the only thing that marred the ride was having to lift our faceshields and shout to communicate. It's getting old... <> >>I'll add to Waldo's comments. I'm a 6'1" (and shrinking) lad who recently installed the +2 Rifle, non-tinted. I am extremely happy with the change. Installation was easy, with no modifications needed. Fit and finish are very good. Driver protection is excellent. I was astounded at the reduction in the noise level vs. the tall Hondaline; I can really hear the engine, transmission and tires now, which makes for a more enjoyable ride. I look over the shield most of the time, but find it really easy to crouch a little bit to look through, especially at speed. Optics and clarity of the shield are very good with no distortion In addition, the reflection of the round keyswitch in the shield is very much reduced. My wife feels more protected, but very marginally. I notice that we can now talk without shouting on our intercom system, and we can actually hear the radio. There is no question that $200 is a lot to pay for the improvements, but IMHO it's worth every penny. Jan deRoos jad10@cornell.edu ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: 07 Dec 95 15:26:31 EST From: "Dana L. Sawyer" <71430.340@compuserve.com> To: HondaPacificCoastOwners Subject: Copy of: Re: Years ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: Dana L. Sawyer, 71430,340 TO: Spencer Farrow, INTERNET:sfarrow@radford.com DATE: 12/7/95 9:50 AM RE: Copy of: Re: PC800: Years The 1990 Honda Red Book for the '90 PC800 lists the following features as being "New for 1990:" 36-month transferable unlimited mileage warranty; taller, redesigned windshield for improved wind and weather protection; numerous fit and finish improvements; more accurate fuel gauge; new Candy Red paint scheme. I don't find your name in our HSTA membership list. Send me your snail-mail addresss and I'll mail you a brochure/membership application. Happy holidaze! DANA SAWYER ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: Bryce Ulrich To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Date: Thu, 7 Dec 95 15:30:52 TZ Subject: Re: Windshield Option It's taken about a year to get her really comfortable and content riding on the bike. As a result we now think of doing most trips, big and small, on the bike instead of her car. We once even rode the PC on a rainy cold day to go buy our Christmas tree! (some friends picked it up later with their truck). She'll tell you I'm much more talkative and vocal when riding than driving the car. Besides a happy woman makes all things better. 'nough said. \"/ -bryceu ---------- Bryce, this is good because????? :) I find the best thing about riding is the peace and quiet! (OK, so now Leanne's gonna kill me.... She just needs to get her own bike!) *** Steve Gross, Seattle, WA Talk is cheap, until you hire a lawyer. *** ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: pckwong@hkuxa.hku.hk (VR2XVI) Subject: Re: Copy of: Re: Years To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Date: Fri, 8 Dec 95 9:41:03 WST > [deleted]...; more accurate fuel gauge; ^^^^ What a good wording from HONDA! "more" accurate! -- **************************************************************************** * Philips Wong, '84 HONDA GL1200A <-- Wow! * * VR2XVI <-- HAM Gold Wing Aspencade * * PCA420 <-- Royal Hong Kong '90 HONDA PC800 white <-- Lexus 2 tone * * Aux. Police '90 HONDA PC800 red <-- Little Wing * * 101177 <-- GWRRA # Yeh I got a real wing at rear * * * * Police Training School taught : HONDA CBX750 <-- Police bike * * " I have the honor to be, Sir, YAMA Diversion 600 <-- Police bike * * your obedient servant!" YAMA SR250 <-- Police junk * * * **************************************************************************** * Will work for gas & chrome, I've an old Wing, and 2 baby Wings at home. * **************************************************************************** Comments: Authenticated sender is ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: "John Palfery" To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 09:25:36 +0000 Subject: Re: Loud shifting noise (oil viscosity?) Priority: normal I use Castrol Syntec 5W-50 and have done since the bike had about 1000 miles on it. Shifts like silk as long as I shift firmly and briskly. John ________________________________________________________ John Palfery jpalfer@mail.atw.fullfeed.com Comments: Authenticated sender is ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: "John Palfery" To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Date: Fri, 8 Dec 1995 09:32:39 +0000 Subject: Re: coolant removal Priority: normal > Date: Wed, 06 Dec 1995 18:29:40 -0800 > From: slgross@halcyon.com (Steve Gross) > Subject: Re: coolant removal > To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu > Reply-to: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu > >> Date: Tue, 05 Dec 1995 18:26:34 -0800 > >> From: slgross@halcyon.com (Steve Gross) > > > > > > > >> Here's another hint for coolant change-out -- Let the Honda service guys do > >> it :) > > > >Now Steve ! Where's the fun in THAT?? > >John > >________________________________________________________ > >John Palfery jpalfer@mail.atw.fullfeed.com > > > John -- Time riding vs. time getting greasy. Besides, you get to sit on all > the new bikes while yours is in the shop! > > Steve > *** > Steve Gross, Seattle, WA > Talk is cheap, until you hire a lawyer. > *** Yeah, I agree about riding rather than fixing, just feel more confident in my equipment when I do the work. I have screwed some stuff up once in a while but on a percentage basis I do much better than the local Honda mechanics because I can take as much time as I need, particularly with the Wisconsin winters being what they are. John ________________________________________________________ John Palfery jpalfer@mail.atw.fullfeed.com ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Fri, 8 Dec 95 13:59:34 est From: Roger_Prince@DGC.MCEO.DG.COM To: "pc800"@MSC.MCEO.DG.COM Subject: Golden Air Filter My dealer (Cycle Design at 508-249-2244, outside MA 800-343-1374) as of 12-8 asks $33.45 plus $3-$4 shipping. CA loses the lead. Roger ps I bought the '95PC from them and ordered my accessories from them by mail. Ex. Backrest = $120., microfiche = $3.00. Their FAX No.508-249-2109. They would prefer to quote by fax or fax for quote then call for the prices. ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 01:09:54 -0500 From: Dentman711@aol.com To: pc800@hpc.uh.edu Subject: Oil oil everwhere and not a drop to drink What is the consensus on oil type here? Synthetic? or dead lizards? I live way down yonder in the paw paw patches of Alabama, which weight would be most appropriate for summer (80-100F)? Winters are 30-70sF No riding this weekend. Xmas party and high of 30F. I'll pass. Rick Fisher Dentman711@AOL.COM ***************************************************************** *1995 Honda Pacific Coast 800cc & 1983 YT60L 3 wheeler/ WARNING: NON MOTORCYCLE INFO FOLLOWS... *1992 Kawasaki 750SX Highly "stock" ;-) / 1985 & 86 Kawasaki 550 (JET SKIS) *Wife & Son / 2 dogs & 1 cat ***************************************************************** 09 Dec 1995 08:49:49 -0600 (CST) ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Sat, 09 Dec 1995 08:48:42 -0600 (CST) From: kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu (Kent Polk) Subject: Re: Oil oil everwhere and not a drop to drink (from Dentman711@aol.com) (at Sat, 09 Dec 1995 01:09:54 -0500) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Hi Dentman711 (Dentman711), in <951209010953_68074823@mail04.mail.aol.com> on Dec 09 you wrote: > What is the consensus on oil type here? Synthetic? or dead lizards? > I live way down yonder in the paw paw patches of Alabama, which weight would > be most appropriate for summer (80-100F)? Winters are 30-70sF I live in San Antonio where the temp is about the same (but not near as humid). Something like a 15-50 is appropriate for this temperature. I've been riding for over 30 years and have tried about everything. >From my experience, synthetics keep the engine cleaner and cooler, but the main thing is reasonable, consistent oil & filter changes - like every 3k-5k miles. As I mentioned earlier, I use Mobil1 because of the noticable difference between it and other synthetics in the engine testing I've come across. I used BelRay for almost 50k miles in my VF700S because it had some difficulties with running Mobil1 (see earlier posting) and had to remove the right case to replace a pickup coil just before I traded it. I had changed oil as mentioned, and this bike even had the infamous V4 cam problems, but when I cracked open the engine, it was almost spotless in there. I traded it in for the PC and the mechanics who checked it out remarked on how well the engine was kept. Said they don't see many in that good of a condition. :^) (And I rode it harder than I ride the PC...) Kent Polk: Southwest Research Institute Internet : kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu Comments: Authenticated sender is ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: "John Palfery" To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 10:51:17 +0000 Subject: Re: Loud shifting noise (oil viscosity?) Priority: normal Kent -- You wrote to Harrison (Harrison Spain) > I use Mobil1 15-50 for those temps. Often, older engines seem to have > a bit of difficulty switching to Mobil1, but it seems that if you start > with it early on, you won't have problems and the percentage of bikes > that have problems with it (clutch problems) is very small. As to > 'why Mobil 1'... well, the Inst. has extensive independent lubricant/ > engine testing laboratories which just about all the major engine > manuf use (including some moto engines). While the Inst. can't promote > anything, I'll just say that I use Mobil1 for a darned good reason. :^) What about Syntec ?, can you comment obliquely ! how does it compare to Mobil1, is it the same or approx technology. > BTW, don't use oil 'enhancer' additives... especially anything with > Teflon in it. Dupont had to be sued to get them to sell Teflon to be > used in an engine lubricant. Again, for a good reason... Dose this mean that Slickstuff is bad, I've been using it, had no problems in three bikes one truck and three cars over the years. It really helped in a friends motor home too, eliminated an overheating problem, comments ? John ________________________________________________________ John Palfery jpalfer@mail.atw.fullfeed.com Comments: Authenticated sender is ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: "John Palfery" To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 10:54:59 +0000 Subject: Re: SAENG Stealth Edging Priority: normal Harrison Spain you wrote > I guess I'm more frustrated by my helmet design that is quieter (by a LOT) > when the face shield is up rather than down! > ME TOO, I have a Shoe X8 air and a tall Hondaline, I almost always ride with the visor up, Any one else have this problem ?? John ________________________________________________________ John Palfery jpalfer@mail.atw.fullfeed.com (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Sat, 9 Dec 1995 09:43:17 -0800 ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Sat, 09 Dec 1995 09:41:12 -0800 From: Steve Gross To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Subject: Re: SAENG Stealth Edging John Palfery wrote: > > Harrison Spain you wrote > > > I guess I'm more frustrated by my helmet design that is quieter (by a LOT) > > when the face shield is up rather than down! > > > > ME TOO, I have a Shoe X8 air and a tall Hondaline, > > I almost always ride with the visor up, Any one else have this > problem ?? > John > ________________________________________________________ > John Palfery jpalfer@mail.atw.fullfeed.com I have a Shoeii RF700; usually better with the shield down... also a 3/4 Shoei. Haven't used a shield with it yet, but I'll let ya know in the summer:) ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** To: pc800@hpc.uh.edu Subject: Re: SAENG Stealth Edging Date: Sat, 09 Dec 1995 16:28:31 -0600 From: Jason L Tibbitts III >>>>> "JP" == "John Palfery" writes: JP> I almost always ride with the visor up, Any one else have this problem JP> ?? Yes, I nearly always ride with either the visor up or in a crouch. I have the SAENG edging and wouldn't ride without it. For me it definitely makes $40 worth of difference; without it things are even noisier. My helmet is an AGV R1. I know, it's not the best and it's pretty noisy but it works (I suppose; it's never hit the ground). - J< ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** To: pc800@hpc.uh.edu Cc: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Subject: Re: Loud shifting noise (oil viscosity?) Date: Sat, 09 Dec 1995 16:54:13 -0600 From: Jason L Tibbitts III >>>>> "JP" == "John Palfery" writes: JP> What about Syntec ?, can you comment obliquely ! how does it compare to JP> Mobil1, is it the same or approx technology. All I know is I put in Syntec 5W-50 and I lost smoothness in clutch and shifting action. Things are better now after two changes of dino. I'll try Mobil 1 next. JP> Dose this mean that Slickstuff is bad, I've been using it, had no JP> problems in three bikes one truck and three cars over the years. Most bike clutches are bathed in the engine oil. Do you want Teflon(tm) on your clutch? I don't. JP> It really helped in a friends motor home too, eliminated an overheating JP> problem, comments ? Most of the heat in an engine comes from combustion, not friction. I don't see how a friction modifier can make gas burn cooler or increase the efficiency of the cooling system. Stranger things have happened, though. - J< (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Sat, 9 Dec 1995 15:01:47 -0800 ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 15:01:47 -0800 To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu From: dkgross@halcyon.com (David Gross) Subject: Re: Loud shifting noise (oil viscosity?) Cc: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu geez....don't you guys just leave your bikes along and just have fun riding them? :>) ------------ Dave Gross & Baron George Von Helldog "It's gotta groove..." ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Sat, 9 Dec 1995 14:17:37 -0900 (AKST) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu From: "Juan A. Goula" Subject: Re: SAENG Stealth Edging At 10:54 AM 12/9/95 +0000, you wrote: >Harrison Spain you wrote > >> I guess I'm more frustrated by my helmet design that is quieter (by a LOT) >> when the face shield is up rather than down! >> > >ME TOO, I have a Shoe X8 air and a tall Hondaline, > >I almost always ride with the visor up, Any one else have this >problem ?? >John Yes, my Shoei RF200 has similar characteristics. My guess is that with the shield down the helmet acts as a big egg-shaped resonating box, the shield will reflect the sound back to your ears. ??? Juan ------------------------------------------------------------------ It is a well known fact that Alaskans do not tan. Instead, they just thaw... Juan A. Goula School of Fisheries & Ocean Sciences University of Alaska Fairbanks AMA # 532390 \\\\ HSTA # 4995RG 1990 Honda PC800 \\\\ 1993 Arctic Cat Panther DLX ----------------------------------------------------------------- Comments: Authenticated sender is ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: "John Palfery" To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 14:06:29 +0000 Subject: Re: oil viscosity and additives. Priority: normal NEVER had a clutch slip problem YET with the teflstuff, in almost ten years of extended use in cars and motorcycles. Sure, most of the heat comes from combustion and the inefficiencies of the heat engine processes but less friction requires less gas and so less heat. The temp is also a function of how challenged the cooling system is under the actual driving conditions. Believe me! I am aware of many instancies where engine temps have dropped after treatment with the teflstuff. I guess it all comes down to personal preference and witchcraft in the end. As I say I have used it (teflstuff) for a considerable time and had NO PROBLEMS and have experienced improvements in shifting performance (particularly) and generally a smoother "feel" to the bike. Some people say that they find the same thing after a good wax job !! For me guys, it works but, anybody got a bridge I can buy!! John ________________________________________________________ John Palfery jpalfer@mail.atw.fullfeed.com Comments: Authenticated sender is ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: "John Palfery" To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 14:10:40 +0000 Subject: Re: Loud shifting noise (oil viscosity?) Priority: normal > Date: Sat, 09 Dec 1995 15:01:47 -0800 > From: dkgross@halcyon.com (David Gross) > Subject: Re: Loud shifting noise (oil viscosity?) > To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu > Cc: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu > Reply-to: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu > geez....don't you guys just leave your bikes along and just have fun riding > them? > Sometimes, sometimes, I also like tying my own flies for trout but you can buy them,(or worms). I guess working on ones own bike adds another dimension to the Sport/ Hobby. To each his own HUH! John ________________________________________________________ John Palfery jpalfer@mail.atw.fullfeed.com ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu (Kent Polk) Subject: Re: Loud shifting noise (oil viscosity?) (from John Palfery ) (at Sat, 09 Dec 1995 10:51:17 +0000) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Date: Sun, 10 Dec 95 20:04:46 CST Hi John (John Palfery), in <199512091734.LAA08539@peter.atw.fullfeed.com> on Dec 09 you wrote: > Kent -- You wrote to Harrison (Harrison Spain) > > > I use Mobil1 15-50 for those temps. Often, older engines seem to have > > What about Syntec ?, can you comment obliquely ! how does it > compare to Mobil1, is it the same or approx technology. I haven't seen enough about Syntec. I do know that those 'tests' run with a dry engine (no oil) have no bearing (ha) on how the engine will run under normal conditions, and I usually shy away from companies which use gimmick advertising. But that doesn't say anything about Syntec. > > BTW, don't use oil 'enhancer' additives... especially anything with > > Teflon in it. Dupont had to be sued to get them to sell Teflon to be > > used in an engine lubricant. Again, for a good reason... > > Dose this mean that Slickstuff is bad, I've been using it, had no > problems in three bikes one truck and three cars over the years. It > really helped in a friends motor home too, eliminated an overheating > problem, comments ? Doesn't necessarily mean it's bad, just that it has been shown over and over that Teflon accomplishes virtually nothing when used in an automotive oil - under normal operating conditions - and that it *might* clog things up under the right conditions. I'd suspect that whatever your friend was using had something else in it besides Teflon that resulted in the cooling effect. (Are you talking about Slick50? If you want Teflon, Slick50 is about the most expensive way to purchase it.) Kent Polk: Southwest Research Institute Internet : kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu 10 Dec 1995 20:10:13 -0600 (CST) ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 20:09:12 -0600 (CST) From: kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu (Kent Polk) Subject: Re: Loud shifting noise (oil viscosity?) (from Jason L Tibbitts III ) (at Sat, 09 Dec 1995 16:54:13 -0600) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Hi Jason (Jason L Tibbitts III), in <9512092254.AA20782@hpc.uh.edu> on Dec 09 you wrote: > > JP> It really helped in a friends motor home too, eliminated an overheating > JP> problem, comments ? > > Most of the heat in an engine comes from combustion, not friction. I don't > see how a friction modifier can make gas burn cooler or increase the > efficiency of the cooling system. Stranger things have happened, though. It does happen, though I don't know the mechanism. I see if I can find out any info about it. Kent Polk: Southwest Research Institute Internet : kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu Comments: Authenticated sender is ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: "John Palfery" To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Date: Sun, 10 Dec 1995 22:30:13 +0000 Subject: Re: Loud shifting noise (oil viscosity?) Priority: normal To Kent Polk: Southwest Research Institute You said <( Are you talking about > Slick50? If you want Teflon, Slick50 is about the most expensive way > to purchase it.) > Yes, that's the stuff, I'm a sucker for jungle juice gimmics I'm afraid. The truck does have 180,000 miles though and still runs very well, not like new of course but "very well" and is very reliable. Don't know wether this is the result of the Slick or the 3000 mile oil changes and other TLC. Thanks for your input -- John ________________________________________________________ John Palfery jpalfer@mail.atw.fullfeed.com ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 08:28:38 -0500 From: JTSMCRIDER@aol.com To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Subject: Re: SAENG Stealth Edging Hi Harrison: Thanks for the input on the Edging. In a message dated 95-12-07 09:36:45 EST, you write: >I guess I'm more frustrated by my helmet design that is quieter (by a LOT) >when the face shield is up rather than down! I've had this problem on a couple of helmets. I'm not sure what type of hat you wear, but one thing that might help is to be sure there is a good seal across the top of the shield. An extra layer of rubber to fill any gap between the shield and the helmet can result in better airflow and less noise. JT ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu (Kent Polk) Subject: Re: Loud shifting noise (oil viscosity?) (from John Palfery ) (at Sun, 10 Dec 1995 22:30:13 +0000) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Date: Mon, 11 Dec 95 12:20:41 CST Hi John (John Palfery), in <199512110434.WAA16338@peter.atw.fullfeed.com> on Dec 10 you wrote: > > To Kent Polk: Southwest Research Institute > <( Are you talking about > > Slick50? If you want Teflon, Slick50 is about the most expensive way > > to purchase it.) > > > Yes, that's the stuff, I'm a sucker for jungle juice gimmics I'm > afraid. The truck does have 180,000 miles though and still runs > very well, not like new of course but "very well" and is very > reliable. Don't know wether this is the result of the Slick or the > 3000 mile oil changes and other TLC. Thanks for your input -- Heck, my wife's Subaru has 190,000 miles on it using the oil I take out of my motorcycle after ~3k miles... Never had any engine work other than cam belt adjustments, etc. on it. And my mother- in-law's '83 Dodge van that I maintain for her has over 160k miles using just Pennzoil and the engine's never even been opened up. So, what does that prove re: the Teflon stuff? :^) :^) Kent Polk: Southwest Research Institute Internet : kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu Comments: Authenticated sender is ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: "John Palfery" To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 14:49:39 +0000 Subject: Re: Loud shifting noise (oil viscosity?) Priority: normal > Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 12:20:41 -0600 (CST) > From: kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu (Kent Polk) > Subject: Re: Loud shifting noise (oil viscosity?) > To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu > Reply-to: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu > Hi John (John Palfery), in <199512110434.WAA16338@peter.atw.fullfeed.com> on Dec 10 you wrote: > > > > > To Kent Polk: Southwest Research Institute > > <( Are you talking about > > > Slick50? If you want Teflon, Slick50 is about the most expensive way > > > to purchase it.) > > > > > Yes, that's the stuff, I'm a sucker for jungle juice gimmics I'm > > afraid. The truck does have 180,000 miles though and still runs > > very well, not like new of course but "very well" and is very > > reliable. Don't know wether this is the result of the Slick or the > > 3000 mile oil changes and other TLC. Thanks for your input -- > > Heck, my wife's Subaru has 190,000 miles on it using the oil I > take out of my motorcycle after ~3k miles... Never had any engine > work other than cam belt adjustments, etc. on it. And my mother- > in-law's '83 Dodge van that I maintain for her has over 160k miles > using just Pennzoil and the engine's never even been opened up. > So, what does that prove re: the Teflon stuff? :^) :^) > > Kent Polk: Southwest Research Institute > Internet : kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu > What can I say ???? John ________________________________________________________ John Palfery jpalfer@mail.atw.fullfeed.com ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 16:36:21 -0500 From: GSMcQueen@aol.com To: hsta@listproc.bgsu.edu, st1100@mcfeeley.cc.utexas.edu Cc: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Subject: another ST1100 for sale FYI to the list: Here is another ST for sale in the CO area. I do know the owner and the bike is in good shape. Give Bill a call if you're interested. ******************************** 1991 Black ST1100. 17,000 original miles, Excellent condition. Contact Bill at 303-759-9377 leave a message ********************************** My new Corbin is at home so I better go check it out! \\/// (o o) ******************oOO**(_)**OOo*********************************** * Gregory McQueen HSTA #5685SU * * Conifer, CO STOC #067 * * 303.674.5168 '91 ST1100 "SpeedTicket" * * GSMcQueen@AOL.com * ******************http://members.aol.com/gsmcqueen/***************** ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Mon, 11 Dec 1995 23:29:51 -0500 From: Dentman711@aol.com To: pc800@hpc.uh.edu Subject: Oil info v1.2 ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Subject: Oil Facts v1.2 From: tcora@pica.army.mil (Tom Coradeschi) Date: Fri, 1 Dec 1995 06:29:50 GMT To help fill the never-ending search for knowledge which is USENET:-}, the following info sheet (FAQ if you wish) is being posted to rec.motorcycles and rec.autos.tech monthly. Any updated information would be greatly appreciated. The posting is also available from my WWW server at URL =+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+=+= More Than You Ever Wanted to Know About Motor Oil By Ed Hackett Edits: v1.0 First there was 1.0. Before that there was darkness. v1.1 Change in description of viscosity. v1.2 Updated info on AMSOIL (courtesy of Morgan McArthur ) Choosing the best motor oil is a topic that comes up frequently in discussions between motoheads, whether they are talking about motorcycles or cars. The following article is intended to help you make a choice based on more than the advertising hype. Oil companies provide data on their oils most often referred to as "typical inspection data". This is an average of the actual physical and a few common chemical properties of their oils. This information is available to the public through their distributors or by writing or calling the company directly. I have compiled a list of the most popular, premium oils so that a ready comparison can be made. If your favorite oil is not on the list get the data from the distributor and use what I have as a data base. This article is going to look at six of the most important properties of a motor oil readily available to the public: viscosity, viscosity index (VI), flash point, pour point, % sulfated ash, and % zinc. Viscosity is a measure of the "flowability" of an oil. More specifically, it is the property of an oil to develop and maintain a certain amount of shearing stress dependent on flow, and then to offer continued resistance to flow. Thicker oils generally have a higher viscosity, and thinner oils a lower viscosity. This is the most important property for an engine. An oil with too low a viscosity can shear and lose film strength at high temperatures. An oil with too high a viscosity may not pump to the proper parts at low temperatures and the film may tear at high rpm. The weights given on oils are arbitrary numbers assigned by the S.A.E. (Society of Automotive Engineers). These numbers correspond to "real" viscosity, as measured by several accepted techniques. These measurements are taken at specific temperatures. Oils that fall into a certain range are designated 5, 10, 20, 30, 40, 50 by the S.A.E. The W means the oil meets specifications for viscosity at 0 F and is therefore suitable for Winter use. The following chart shows the relationship of "real" viscosity to their S.A.E. assigned numbers. The relationship of gear oils to engine oils is also shown. _______________________________________________________________ | | | SAE Gear Viscosity Number | | ________________________________________________________ | | |75W |80W |85W| 90 | 140 | | | |____|_____|___|______________|________________________| | | | | SAE Crank Case Viscosity Number | | ____________________________ | | |10| 20 | 30 | 40 | 50 | | | |__|_____|____|_____|______| | ______________________________________________________________ 2 4 6 8 10 12 14 16 18 20 22 24 26 28 30 32 34 36 38 40 42 viscosity cSt @ 100 degrees C Multi viscosity oils work like this: Polymers are added to a light base (5W, 10W, 20W), which prevent the oil from thinning as much as it warms up. At cold temperatures the polymers are coiled up and allow the oil to flow as their low numbers indicate. As the oil warms up the polymers begin to unwind into long chains that prevent the oil from thinning as much as it normally would. The result is that at 100 degrees C the oil has thinned only as much as the higher viscosity number indicates. Another way of looking at multi-vis oils is to think of a 20W-50 as a 20 weight oil that will not thin more than a 50 weight would when hot. Multi viscosity oils are one of the great improvements in oils, but they should be chosen wisely. Always use a multi grade with the narrowest span of viscosity that is appropriate for the temperatures you are going to encounter. In the winter base your decision on the lowest temperature you will encounter, in the summer, the highest temperature you expect. The polymers can shear and burn forming deposits that can cause ring sticking and other problems. 10W-40 and 5W-30 require a lot of polymers (synthetics excluded) to achieve that range. This has caused problems in diesel engines, but fewer polymers are better for all engines. The wide viscosity range oils, in general, are more prone to viscosity and thermal breakdown due to the high polymer content. It is the oil that lubricates, not the additives. Oils that can do their job with the fewest additives are the best. Very few manufactures recommend 10W-40 any more, and some threaten to void warranties if it is used. It was not included in this article for that reason. 20W-50 is the same 30 point spread, but because it starts with a heavier base it requires less viscosity index improvers (polymers) to do the job. AMSOIL can formulate their 10W-30 and 15W-40 with no viscosity index improvers but uses some in the 10W-40 and 5W-30. Mobil 1 uses no viscosity improvers in their 5W-30, and I assume the new 10W-30. Follow your manufacturer's recommendations as to which weights are appropriate for your vehicle. Viscosity Index is an empirical number indicating the rate of change in viscosity of an oil within a given temperature range. Higher numbers indicate a low change, lower numbers indicate a relatively large change. The higher the number the better. This is one major property of an oil that keeps your bearings happy. These numbers can only be compared within a viscosity range. It is not an indication of how well the oil resists thermal breakdown. Flash point is the temperature at which an oil gives off vapors that can be ignited with a flame held over the oil. The lower the flash point the greater tendency for the oil to suffer vaporization loss at high temperatures and to burn off on hot cylinder walls and pistons. The flash point can be an indicator of the quality of the base stock used. The higher the flash point the better. 400 F is the minimum to prevent possible high consumption. Flash point is in degrees F. Pour point is 5 degrees F above the point at which a chilled oil shows no movement at the surface for 5 seconds when inclined. This measurement is especially important for oils used in the winter. A borderline pumping temperature is given by some manufacturers. This is the temperature at which the oil will pump and maintain adequate oil pressure. This was not given by a lot of the manufacturers, but seems to be about 20 degrees F above the pour point. The lower the pour point the better. Pour point is in degrees F. % sulfated ash is how much solid material is left when the oil burns. A high ash content will tend to form more sludge and deposits in the engine. Low ash content also seems to promote long valve life. Look for oils with a low ash content. % zinc is the amount of zinc used as an extreme pressure, anti-wear additive. The zinc is only used when there is actual metal to metal contact in the engine. Hopefully the oil will do its job and this will rarely occur, but if it does, the zinc compounds react with the metal to prevent scuffing and wear. A level of .11% is enough to protect an automobile engine for the extended oil drain interval, under normal use. Those of you with high revving, air cooled motorcycles or turbo charged cars or bikes might want to look at the oils with the higher zinc content. More doesn't give you better protection, it gives you longer protection if the rate of metal to metal contact is abnormally high. High zinc content can lead to deposit formation and plug fouling. The Data: Listed alphabetically --- indicates the data was not available Brand VI Flash Pour %ash %zinc 20W-50 AMSOIL (old) 136 482 -38 <.5 --- AMSOIL (new) 157 507 -44 --- --- Castrol GTX 122 440 -15 .85 .12 Exxon High Performance 119 419 -13 .70 .11 Havoline Formula 3 125 465 -30 1.0 --- Kendall GT-1 129 390 -25 1.0 .16 Pennzoil GT Perf. 120 460 -10 .9 --- Quaker State Dlx. 155 430 -25 .9 --- Red Line 150 503 -49 --- --- Shell Truck Guard 130 450 -15 1.0 .15 Spectro Golden 4 174 440 -35 --- .15 Spectro Golden M.G. 174 440 -35 --- .13 Unocal 121 432 -11 .74 .12 Valvoline All Climate 125 430 -10 1.0 .11 Valvoline Turbo 140 440 -10 .99 .13 Valvoline Race 140 425 -10 1.2 .20 Valvoline Synthetic 146 465 -40 <1.5 .12 20W-40 AMSOIL 124 500 -49 --- --- Castrol Multi-Grade 110 440 -15 .85 .12 Quaker State 121 415 -15 .9 --- 15W-50 Chevron 204 415 -18 .96 .11 Mobil 1 170 470 -55 --- --- Mystic JT8 144 420 -20 1.7 .15 Red Line 152 503 -49 --- --- 5W-50 Castrol Syntec 180 437 -45 1.2 .10 Quaker State Synquest 173 457 -76 --- --- Pennzoil Performax 176 --- -69 --- --- 5W-40 Havoline 170 450 -40 1.4 --- 15W-40 AMSOIL (old) 135 460 -38 <.5 --- AMSOIL (new) 164 462 -49 --- --- Castrol 134 415 -15 1.3 .14 Chevron Delo 400 136 421 -27 1.0 --- Exxon XD3 --- 417 -11 .9 .14 Exxon XD3 Extra 135 399 -11 .95 .13 Kendall GT-1 135 410 -25 1.0 .16 Mystic JT8 142 440 -20 1.7 .15 Red Line 149 495 -40 --- --- Shell Rotella w/XLA 146 410 -25 1.0 .13 Valvoline All Fleet 140 --- -10 1.0 .15 Valvoline Turbo 140 420 -10 .99 .13 10W-30 AMSOIL (old) 142 480 -70 <.5 --- AMSOIL (new) 162 520 -76 --- --- Castrol GTX 140 415 -33 .85 .12 Chevron Supreme 150 401 -26 .96 .11 Exxon Superflo Hi Perf 135 392 -22 .70 .11 Exxon Superflo Supreme 133 400 -31 .85 .13 Havoline Formula 3 139 430 -30 1.0 --- Kendall GT-1 139 390 -25 1.0 .16 Mobil 1 160 450 -65 --- --- Pennzoil PLZ Turbo 140 410 -27 1.0 --- Quaker State 156 410 -30 .9 --- Red Line 139 475 -40 --- --- Shell Fire and Ice 155 410 -35 .9 .12 Shell Super 2000 155 410 -35 1.0 .13 Shell Truck Guard 155 405 -35 1.0 .15 Spectro Golden M.G. 175 405 -40 --- --- Unocal Super 153 428 -33 .92 .12 Valvoline All Climate 130 410 -26 1.0 .11 Valvoline Turbo 135 410 -26 .99 .13 Valvoline Race 130 410 -26 1.2 .20 Valvoline Synthetic 140 450 -40 <1.5 .12 5W-30 AMSOIL (old) 168 480 -76 <.5 --- AMSOIL (new) 186 464 -76 --- --- Castrol GTX 156 400 -35 .80 .12 Chevron Supreme 202? 354 -46 .96 .11 Chevron Supreme Synt. 165 446 -72 1.1 .12 Exxon Superflow HP 148 392 -22 .70 .11 Havoline Formula 3 158 420 -40 1.0 --- Mobil 1 165 445 -65 --- --- Mystic JT8 161 390 -25 .95 .1 Quaker State 165 405 -35 .9 --- Red Line 151 455 -49 --- --- Shell Fire and Ice 167 405 -35 .9 .12 Unocal 151 414 -33 .81 .12 Valvoline All Climate 135 405 -40 1.0 .11 Valvoline Turbo 158 405 -40 .99 .13 Valvoline Synthetic 160 435 -40 <1.5 .12 All of the oils above meet current SG/CD ratings and all vehicle manufacture's warranty requirements in the proper viscosity. All are "good enough", but those with the better numbers are icing on the cake. The synthetics offer the only truly significant differences, due to their superior high temperature oxidation resistance, high film strength, very low tendency to form deposits, stable viscosity base, and low temperature flow characteristics. Synthetics are superior lubricants compared to traditional petroleum oils. You will have to decide if their high cost is justified in your application. The extended oil drain intervals given by the vehicle manufacturers (typically 7500 miles) and synthetic oil companies (up to 25,000 miles) are for what is called normal service. Normal service is defined as the engine at normal operating temperature, at highway speeds, and in a dust free environment. Stop and go, city driving, trips of less than 10 miles, or extreme heat or cold puts the oil change interval into the severe service category, which is 3000 miles for most vehicles. Synthetics can be run two to three times the mileage of petroleum oils with no problems. They do not react to combustion and combustion by-products to the extent that the dead dinosaur juice does. The longer drain intervals possible help take the bite out of the higher cost of the synthetics. If your car or bike is still under warranty you will have to stick to the recommended drain intervals. These are set for petroleum oils and the manufacturers make no official allowance for the use of synthetics. Oil additives should not be used. The oil companies have gone to great lengths to develop an additive package that meets the vehicle's requirements. Some of these additives are synergistic, that is the effect of two additives together is greater than the effect of each acting separately. If you add anything to the oil you may upset this balance and prevent the oil from performing to specification. The numbers above are not, by any means, all there is to determining what makes a top quality oil. The exact base stock used, the type, quality, and quantity of additives used are very important. The given data combined with the manufacturer's claims, your personal experience, and the reputation of the oil among others who use it should help you make an informed choice. Rick Fisher Dentman711@AOL.COM ***************************************************************** *1995 Honda Pacific Coast 800cc / WARNING: NON MOTORCYCLE INFO FOLLOWS... *1992 Kawasaki 750SX Highly "stock" ;-) / 1985 & 86 Kawasaki 550 (JET SKIS) *Wife & Son / 2 dogs & 1 cat ***************************************************************** ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: 12 Dec 95 12:19:13 EST From: Steve Schibuola <73414.466@compuserve.com> To: PC800 Mailing List Subject: New Subscriber Hello. My name is Steve Schibuola, I live in Laguna Beach, CA, and I just bought a 1989 PC800 with 5000 miles on the clock. ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 09:54:04 -0800 (PST) From: Johan Lai To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Subject: Re: New Subscriber On Tue, 12 Dec 1995, Steve Schibuola wrote: > Hello. My name is Steve Schibuola, I live in Laguna Beach, CA, and I just bought > a 1989 PC800 with 5000 miles on the clock. > > Welcome Steve! Maybe you, Harrison (in Cypress), and I could get together for a ride sometime! ========================================================================= Johan Lai UUCP Mail: None Unix Systems Admin Internet Mail: jlai@filenet.com Engineering Services Snail Mail: 3565 Harbor Boulevard FileNet Corporation Costa Mesa, CA 92626 "System Administration: It's a dirty job, somebody said I had to do it." ========================================================================= with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 12 Dec 1995 12:12:20 -0700 ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 12:18:36 -0700 From: Neill Thompson To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Subject: Re: New Subscriber -Reply Johan, you're alive... did you get the uuencoded picture I sent you? ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Tue, 12 Dec 1995 11:29:05 -0800 (PST) From: Johan Lai To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Subject: Re: New Subscriber -Reply On Tue, 12 Dec 1995, Neill Thompson wrote: > Johan, you're alive... did you get the uuencoded picture I sent > you? > Hi Neill! Yes I did! Thank you! It looks great! I guess my last message didn't go out. We had some problems with the mail servers on our side. It must have gotten eaten. Our trip to Arizona will have to wait. We're buying a new house in March so gotta save up. We'll keep you in mind when we do plan the trip though. Didn't plan on buying until we stumbled across a nice lot and of course with the prices diving nowadays, it's a good time to buy. Not a good time to sell but oh well, can't win them all. Anyone want a condo in Tustin, CA? :) ========================================================================= Johan Lai E Mail: jlai@filenet.com CCF Systems Admin Voice: (714) 850-5805 Engineering Services Pager: (714) 754-3120 FileNet Corporation MS Mail Users: Please use my email address above. Thanks. ========================================================================= ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 20:10:02 -0500 From: Dentman711@aol.com To: hsta@listproc.bgsu.edu, pc800@hpc.uh.edu Subject: Teflon mystery solved! (1/2) I keep seeing people asking questions about this, so here's what I have on it. I think I got this from this group or ba.moto last year, and since questions about this product never seem to stop I'm glad to post it again. ------------------------------------------------------------------------- Snake Oil! Is That Additive Really A Negative? Article and Photos by Fred Rau ROAD RIDER/August 1992/Pg 15 Information for this article was compiled from reports and studies by the University of Nevada Desert Research Center, DuPont Chemical Company, Avco Lycoming (aircraft engine manufacturers), North Dakota State University, Briggs and Stratton (engine manufacturers), the University of Utah Engineering Experiment Station, California State Polytechnic College and the National Aeronautics and Space Administration's Lewis Research Center. Road Rider does not claim to have all the answers. Nor do we care to presume to tell you what to do. We have simply tried to provide you with all the information we were able to dredge up on this subject, in hopes it will help you in making your own, informed decision. You Can't Tell The Players Without A Program On starting this project, we set out to find as many different oil additives as we could buy. That turned out to be a mistake. There were simply too many available! At the very first auto parts store we visited, there were over two dozen different brand names available. By the end of the day, we had identified over 40 different oil additives for sale and realized we needed to rethink our strategy. First of all, we found that if we checked the fine print on the packages, quite a number of the additives came from the same manufacturer. Also, we began to notice that the additives could be separated into basic "groups" that seemed to carry approximately the same ingredients and the same promises. In the end, we divided our additives into four basic groups and purchased at least three brands from three different manufacturers for each group. We defined our four groups this way: 1.) Products that seemed to be nothing more than regular 50-rated engine oil (including standard additives) with PTFE (Teflon TM) added. 2.) Products that seemed to be nothing more than regular 50-rated engine oil (including standard additives) with zinc dialkyldithiophosphate added. 3.) Products containing (as near as we could determine) much the same additives as are already found in most major brands of engine oil, though in different quantities and combinations. 4.) Products made up primarily of solvents and/or detergents. There may be some differences in chemical makeup within groups, but that is impossible to tell since the additive manufacturers refuse to list the specific ingredients of their products. We will discuss each group individually. The PTFE Mystery Currently, the most common and popular oil additives on the market are those that contain PTFE powders suspended in a regular, over-the-counter type, 50-rated petroleum or synthetic engine oil. PTFE is the common abbreviation used for Polytetrafloeraethylene, more commonly known by the trade name "Teflon," which is a registered trademark of the DuPont Chemical Corporation. Among those oil additives we have identified as containing PTFE are: Slick 50, Liquid Ring, Lubrilon, Microlon, Matrix, Petrolon (same company as Slick 50), QMl, and T-Plus (K-Mart). There are probably many more names in use on many more products using PTFE. We have found that oil additive makers like to market their products under a multitude of "private brand" names. While some of these products may contain other additives in addition to PTFE, all seem to rely on the PTFE as their primary active ingredient and all, without exception, do not list what other ingredients they may contain. Though they have gained rather wide acceptance among the motoring public, oil additives containing PTFE have also garnered their share of critics among experts in the field of lubrication. By far the most damning testimonial against these products originally came from the DuPont Chemical Corporation, inventor of PTFE and holder of the patents and trademarks for Teflon. In a statement issued about ten years ago, DuPont's Fluoropolymers Division Product Specialist, J.F. Imbalzano said, "Teflon is not useful as an ingredient in oil additives or oils used for internal combustion engines." At the time, DuPont threatened legal action against anyone who used the name "Teflon" on any oil product destined for use in an internal combustion engine, and refused to sell its PTFE powders to any one who intended to use them for such purposes. After a flurry of lawsuits from oil additive makers, claiming DuPont could not prove that PTFE was harmful to engines, DuPont was forced to once again begin selling their PTFE to the additive producers. The additive makers like to claim this is some kind of "proof' that their products work, when in fact it is nothing more than proof that the American legal ethic of "innocent until proven guilty" is still alive and well. The decision against DuPont involved what is called "restraint of trade." You can't refuse to sell a product to someone just because there is a possibility they might use it for a purpose other than what you intended it for. It should be noted that DuPont's official position on the use of PTFE in engine oils remains carefully aloof and noncommittal, for obvious legal reasons. DuPont states that though they sell PTFE to oil additive producers, they have "no proof of the validity of the additive makers' claims." They further state that they have "no knowledge of any advantage gained through the use of PTFE in engine oil." Fear of potential lawsuits for possible misrepresentation of a product seem to run much higher among those with the most to lose. After DuPont's decision and attempt to halt the use of PTFE in engine oils, several of the oil additive companies simply went elsewhere for their PTFE powders, such as purchasing them in other countries. In some cases, they disguise or hype their PTFE as being something different or special by listing it under one of their own tradenames. That doesn't change the fact that it is still PTFE. In addition, there is some evidence that certain supplies of PTFE powders (from manufacturers other than DuPont) are of a cruder version than the original, made with larger sized flakes that are more likely to "settle out" in your oil or clog up your filters. One fairly good indication that a product contains this kind of PTFE is if the instructions for its use advise you to "shake well before using." It only stands to reason that if the manufacturer knows the solids in his product will settle to the bottom of a container while sitting on a shelf, the same thing is going to hap pen inside your engine when it is left idle for any period of time. The problem with putting PTFE in your oil, as explained to us by several industry experts, is that PTFE is a solid. The additive makers claim this solid "coats" the moving parts in an engine (though that is far from being scientifically proven). Slick 50 is currently both the most aggressive advertiser and the most popular seller, with claims of over 14 million treatments sold. However, such solids seem even more inclined to coat non-moving parts, like oil passages and filters. After all, if it can build up under the pressures and friction exerted on a cylinder wall, then it stands to reason it should build up even better in places with low pressures and virtually no friction. This conclusion seems to be borne out by tests on oil additives containing PTFE conducted by the NASA Lewis Research Center, which said in their report, "In the types of bearing surface contact we have looked at, we have seen no benefit. In some cases we have seen detrimental effect. The solids in the oil tend to accumulate at inlets and act as a dam, which simply blocks the oil from entering. Instead of helping, it is actually depriving parts of lubricant." Remember, PTFE in oil additives is a suspended solid. Now think about why you have an oil filter on your engine. To remove suspended solids, right? Right. Therefore it would seem to follow that if your oil filter is doing its job, it will collect as much of the PTFE as possible, as quickly as possible. This can result in a clogged oil filter and decreased oil pressure throughout your engine. In response to our inquiries about this sort of problem, several of the PTFE pushers responded that their particulates were of a sub-micron size, capable of passing through an ordinary oil filter unrestricted. This certainly sounds good, and may in some cases actually be true, but it makes little difference when you know the rest of the story. You see, PTFE has other qualities besides being a friction reducer: It expands radically when exposed to heat. So even if those particles are small enough to pass through your filter when you purchase them, they very well may not be when your engine reaches normal operating temperature. Here again, the' scientific evidence seems to support this, as in tests conducted by researchers at the University of Utah Engineering Experiment Station involving Petrolon additive with PTFE. The Petrolon test report states, "There was a pressure drop across the oil filter resulting from possible clogging of small passageways." In addition, oil analysis showed that iron contamination doubled after using the treatment, indicating that engine wear didn't go down - it appeared to shoot up. This particular report was paid for by Petrolon (marketers of Slick 50), and was not all bad news for their products. The tests, conducted on a Chevrolet six-cylinder automobile engine, showed that after treatment with the PTFE additive the test engine's friction was reduced by 13.1 percent. Also, output horsepower increased from 5.3 percent to 8.1 percent, and fuel economy improved from 11.8 percent under light load to 3.8 percent under heavy load. These are the kind of results an aggressive marketing company like Petrolon can really sink their teeth into. If we only reported the results in the last paragraph to you, you'd be inclined to think Slick 50 was indeed a magic engine elixir. What you have to keep in mind is that often times the benefits (like increased horse power and fuel economy) may be out weighed by some serious drawbacks (like the indications of reduced oil pressure and increased wear rate). The Plot Thickens Just as we were about to go to press with this article, we were contacted by the public relations firm of Trent and Company, an outfit with a prestigious address in the Empire State Building, New York. They advised us they were working for a company called QMI out of Lakeland, Florida, that was marketing a "technological breakthrough" product in oil additives. Naturally, we asked them to send us all pertinent information, including any testing and research data. What we got was pretty much what we expected. QMI's oil additive, according to their press release, uses "ten times more PTFE resins than its closest competitor." Using the "unique SX-6000 formula," they say they are the only company to use "aqueous dispersion resin which means the microns (particle sizes) are extensively smaller and can penetrate tight areas." This, they claim, "completely eliminates the problem of clogged filters and oil passages." Intrigued by their press release, we set up a telephone interview with their Vice-President of Technical Services, Mr. Owen Heatwole. Mr. Heatwole's name was immediately recognized by us as one that had popped in earlier research of this subject as a former employee of Petrolon, a company whose name seems inextricably linked in some fashion or another with virtually every PTFE-related additive maker in the country. Mr. Heatwole was a charming and persuasive talker with a knack for avoiding direct answers as good as any seasoned politician. His glib pitch for his product was the best we've ever heard, but when dissected and pared down to the verifiable facts, it actually said very little. When we asked about the ingredients in QMI's treatments, we got almost exactly the response we expected. Mr. Heatwole said he would "have to avoid discussing specifics about the formula, for proprietary reasons." After telling us that QMI was being used by "a major oil company," a "nuclear plant owned by a major corporation" and a "major engine manufacturer," Mr. Heatwole followed up with, "Naturally, I can't reveal their names - for proprietary reasons." He further claimed to have extensive testing and research data available from a "major laboratory," proving conclusively how effective QMI was. When we asked for the name of the lab, can you guess? Yup, "We can't give out that information, for proprietary reasons." What QMI did give us was the typical "testimonials," though we must admit theirs came from more recognizable sources than usual. They seem to have won over the likes of both Team Kawasaki and Bobby Unser, who evidently endorse and use QMI in their racing engines. Mr. Heatwole was very proud of the fact that their product was being used in engines that he himself admitted are "torn down and completely inspected on a weekly basis." Of course, what he left out is that those same engines are almost totally rebuilt every time they're torn down. So what does that prove in terms of his product reducing wear and promoting engine longevity? Virtually nothing. Mr. Heatwole declined to name the source of QMI's PTFE supply "for proprietary reasons." He bragged that their product is sold under many different private labels, but refused to identify those labels "for proprietary reasons." When asked about the actual size of the PTFE particles used in QMI, he claimed they were measured as "sub-micron in size" by a "major motor laboratory" which he couldn't identify - you guessed it - for "proprietary reasons." After about an hour of listening to "don't quote me on this," "I'll have to deny that if you print it," and "I can't reveal that," we asked Mr. Heatwole if there was something we could print. "Certainly," he said, "Here's a good quote for you: 'The radical growth in technology has overcome the problem areas associated with PTFE in the 1980s'" "Not bad," we said. Then we asked to whom we might attribute this gem of wisdom. DuPont Chemical, perhaps? "Me," said Mr. Heatwole. "I said that." QMI's press releases like to quote the Guinness Book Of Records in saying that PTFE is "The slickest substance known to man." Far be it from us to take exception to the Guinness Book, but we doubt that PTFE is much slicker than some of the people marketing it. The Zinc Question The latest "miracle ingredient" in oil additives, attempting to usurp PTFE's cure-all throne, is zinc dialkyldithiophosphate, which we will refer to here after as simply "zinc." Purveyors of the new zinc-related products claim they can prove absolute superiority over the PTFE-related products. Naturally, the PTFE crowd claim exactly the same, in reverse. Zinc is contained as part of the standard additive package in virtually every major brand of engine oil sold today, varying from a low volume of 0.10 per cent in brands such as Valvoline All Climate and Chevron l5W-50, to a high volume of 0.20 percent in brands such as Valvoline Race and Pennzoil GT Performance. Organic zinc compounds are used as extreme pressure, anti-wear additives, and are therefore found in larger amounts in oils specifically blended for high-revving, turbocharged or racing applications. The zinc in your oil comes into play only when there is actual metal-to-metal con tact within your engine, which should never occur under normal operating conditions. However, if you race your bike, or occasionally play tag with the redline on the tach, the zinc is your last line of defense. Under extreme conditions, the zinc compounds react with the metal to prevent scuffing, particularly between cylinder bores and piston rings. However - and this is the important part to remember - available research shows that more zinc does not give you more protection, it merely prolongs the protection if the rate of metal-to-metal contact is abnormally high or extended. So unless you plan on spending a couple of hours dragging your knee at Laguna Seca, adding extra zinc compounds to your oil is usually a waste. Also, keep in mind that high zinc content can lead to deposit formation on your valves, and spark plug fouling. Among the products we found containing zinc dialkyldithiophosphate were Mechanics Brand Engine Tune Up, K Mart Super Oil Treatment, and STP Engine Treatment With XEP2. The only reason we can easily identify the additives with the new zinc compounds is that they are required to carry a Federally mandated warning label indicating they contain a hazardous substance. The zinc phosphate they contain is a known eye irritant, capable of inflicting severe harm if it comes in contact with your eyes. If you insist on using one of these products, please wear protective goggles and exercise extreme caution. As we mentioned, organic zinc compounds are already found in virtually every major brand of oil, both automotive and motorcycle. However, in recent years the oil companies voluntarily reduced the amount of zinc content in most of their products after research indicated the zinc was responsible for premature deterioration and damage to catalytic converters. Obviously this situation would not affect 99 percent of all the motorcycles on the road - however, it could have been a factor with the newer BMW converter - equipped bikes. Since the reduction in zinc content was implemented solely for the protection of catalytic converters, it is possible that some motorcycles might benefit from a slight increase in zinc content in their oils. This has been taken into account by at least one oil company, Spectro, which offers 0.02 to 0.03 percent more zinc compounds in its motorcycle oils than in its automotive oils. Since Spectro (Golden 4 brand, in this case) is a synthetic blend lubricant designed for extended drain intervals, this increase seems to be wholly justified. Also, available research indicates that Spectro has, in this case, achieved a sensible balance for extended application without increasing the zinc content to the point that it is likely to cause spark plug fouling or present a threat to converter-equipped BMW models. It would appear that someone at Spectro did their homework. Increased Standard Additives (More Is Not Necessarily Better) Though some additives may not contain anything harmful to your engine, and even some things that could be beneficial, most experts still recommend that you avoid their use. The reason for this is that your oil, as purchased from one of the major oil companies, already contains a very extensive additive package. This package is made up of numerous, specific additive components, blended to achieve a specific formula that will meet the requirements of your engine. Usually, at least several of these additives will be synergistic. That is, they react mutually, in groups of two or more, to create an effect that none of them could attain individually. Changing or adding to this formula can upset the balance and negate the protective effect the formula was meant to achieve, even if you are only adding more of something that was already included in the initial package. If it helps, try to think of your oil like a cake recipe. Just because the original recipe calls for two eggs (which makes for a very moist and tasty cake), do you think adding four more eggs is going to make the cake better? Of course not. You're going to upset the carefully calculated balance of ingredients and magnify the effect the eggs have on the recipe to the point that it ruins the entire cake. Adding more of a specific additive already contained in your oil is likely to produce similar results. End of part 1 of 2 ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 20:10:06 -0500 From: Dentman711@aol.com To: hsta@listproc.bgsu.edu, pc800@hpc.uh.edu Subject: Teflon mystery solved (2/2) Begining of part 2 of 2 This information should also be taken into account when adding to the oil already in your bike or when mixing oils for any reason, such as synthetic with petroleum. In these cases, always make sure the oils you are putting together have the same rating (SA, SE, SC, etc.). This tells you their additive packages are basically the same, or at least compatible, and are less likely to upset the balance or counteract each other. Detergents And Solvents Many of the older, better-known oil treatments on the market do not make claims nearly so lavish as the new upstarts. Old standbys like Bardahl, Rislone and Marvel Mystery Oil, instead offer things like "quieter lifters," "reduced oil burning" and a "cleaner engine." Most of these products are made up of solvents and detergents designed to dissolve sludge and carbon deposits inside your engine so they can be flushed or burned out. Wynn's Friction Proofing Oil, for example, is 83 percent kerosene. Other brands use naphthalene, xylene, acetone and isopropanol. Usually, these ingredients will be found in a base of standard mineral oil. In general, these products are designed to do just the opposite of what the PTFE and zinc phosphate additives claim to do. Instead of leaving behind a "coating" or a "plating" on your engine surfaces, they are designed to strip away such things. All of these products will strip sludge and deposits out and clean up your engine, particularly if it is an older, abused one. The problem is, unless you have some way of determining just how much is needed to remove your deposits without going any further, such solvents also can strip away the boundary lubrication layer provided by your oil. Overuse of solvents is an easy trap to fall into, and one which can promote harmful metal-to-metal contact within your engine. As a general rule of thumb these products had their place and were at least moderately useful on older automobile and motorcycle engines of the Fifties and Sixties, but are basically unneeded on the more efficient engine designs of the past two decades. The Infamous "No Oil" Demo At at least three major motorcycle rallies this past year, we have witnessed live demonstrations put on to demonstrate the effectiveness of certain oil additives. The demonstrators would have a bench-mounted engine which they would fill with oil and a prescribed dose of their "miracle additive." After running the engine for a while they would stop it, drain out the oil and start it up again. Instant magic! The engine would run perfectly well for hours on end, seemingly proving the effectiveness of the additive which had supposedly "coated" the inside of the engine so well it didn't even need the oil to run. In one case, we saw this done with an actual motorcycle, which would be rid den around the parking lot after having its oil drained. A pretty convincing demonstration - until you know the facts. Since some of these demonstrations were conducted using Briggs and Stratton engines, the Briggs and Stratton Company itself decided to run a similar, but somewhat more scientific, experiment. Taking two brand-new, identical engines straight off their assembly line, they set them up for bench-testing. The only difference was that one had the special additive included with its oil and the other did not. Both were operated for 20 hours before being shut down and having the oil drained from them. Then both were started up again and allowed to run for another 20 straight hours. Neither engine seemed to have any problem performing this "minor miracle." After the second 20-hour run, both engines were completely torn down and inspected by the company's engineers. What they found was that both engines suffered from scored crankpin bearings, but the engine treated with the additive also suffered from heavy cylinder bore damage that was not evident on the untreated engine. This points out once again the inherent problem with particulate oil additives: They can cause oil starvation. This is particularly true in the area of piston rings, where there is a critical need for adequate oil flow. In practically all of the reports and studies on oil additives, and particularly those involving suspended solids like PTFE, this has been reported as a major area of engine damage. The Racing Perspective Among the most convincing testimonials in favor of oil additives are those that come from professional racers or racing teams. As noted previously, some of the oil additive products actually are capable of producing less engine friction, better gas mileage and higher horsepower out put. In the world of professional racing, the split-second advantage that might be gained from using such a product could be the difference between victory and defeat. Virtually all of the downside or detrimental effects attached to these products are related to extended, long-term usage. For short-life, high-revving, ultra-high performance engines designed to last no longer than one racing season (or in some cases, one single race), the long-term effects of oil additives need not even be considered. Racers also use special high-adhesion tires that give much better traction and control than our normal street tires, but you certainly wouldn't want to go touring on them, since they're designed to wear out in several hundred (or less) miles. Just because certain oil additives may be beneficial in a competitive context is no reason to believe they would be equally beneficial in a touring context. The Best of The Worst Not all engine oil additives are as potentially harmful as some of those we have described here. However, the best that can be said of those that have not proved to be harmful is that they haven't been proved to offer any real benefits, either. In some cases, introducing an additive with a compatible package of components to your oil in the right proportion and at the right time can conceivably extend the life of your oil. However, in every case we have studied it proves out that it would actually have been cheaper to simply change the engine oil instead. In addition, recent new evidence has come to light that makes using almost any additive a game of Russian Roulette. Since the additive distributors do not list the ingredients contained within their products, you never know for sure just what you are putting in your engine. Recent tests have shown that even some of the most inoffensive additives contain products which, though harmless in their initial state, convert to hydrofluoric acid when exposed to the temperatures inside a firing cylinder. This acid is formed as part of the exhaust gases, and though it is instantly expelled from your engine and seems to do it no harm, the gases collect inside your exhaust system and eat away at your mufflers from the inside out. Whatever The Market Will Bear The pricing of oil additives seems to follow no particular pattern whatsoever. Even among those products that seem to be almost identical, chemically, retail prices covered an extremely wide range. For example: One 32-ounce bottle of Slick 50 (with PTFE) cost us $29.95 at a discount house that listed the retail price as $59.95, while a 32-ounce bottle of T-Plus (which claims to carry twice as much PTFE as the Slick 50) cost us only $15.88. A 32-ounce bottle of STP Engine Treatment (containing what they call XEP2), which they claim they can prove "outperforms leading PTFE engine treatments," cost us $17.97. Yet a can of K Mart Super Oil Treatment, which listed the same zinc-derivative ingredient as that listed for the XEP2, cost us a paltry $2.67. Industry experts estimate that the actual cost of producing most oil additives is from one-tenth to one-twentieth of the asking retail price. Certainly no additive manufacturer has come forward with any exotic, high-cost ingredient or list of ingredients to dispute this claim. As an interesting note along with this, back before there was so much competition in the field to drive prices down, Petrolon (Slick 50) was selling their PTFE products for as much as $400 per treatment! The words "buyer beware" seem to take on very real significance when talking about oil additives. The Psychological Placebo You have to wonder, with the volume of evidence accumulating against oil additives, why so many of us still buy them. That's the million-dollar question, and it's just as difficult to answer as why so many of us smoke cigarettes, drink hard liquor or engage in any other number of questionable activities. We know they aren't good for us - but we go ahead and do them anyway. Part of the answer may lie in what some psychiatrists call the "psychological placebo effect." Simply put, that means that many of us hunger for that peace of mind that comes with believing we have purchased the absolute best or most protection we can possibly get. Even better, there's that wonderfully smug feeling that comes with thinking we might be a step ahead of the pack, possessing knowledge of something just a bit better than everyone else. Then again, perhaps it comes from an ancient, deep-seated need we all seem to have to believe in magic. There has never been any shortage of unscrupulous types ready to cash in on our willingness to believe that there's some magical mystery potion we can buy to help us lose weight, grow hair, attract the opposite sex or make our engines run longer and better. I doubt that there's a one of us who hasn't fallen for one of these at least once in our lifetimes. We just want it to be true so bad that we can't help ourselves. Testimonial Hype vs. Scientific Analysis In general, most producers of oil additives rely on personal "testimonials" to advertise and promote their products. A typical print advertisement will be one or more letters from a satisfied customer stating something like, "1 have used Brand X in my engine for 2 years and 50,000 miles and it runs smoother and gets better gas mileage than ever before. I love this product and would recommend it to anyone." Such evidence is referred to as "anecdotal" and is most commonly used to pro mote such things as miracle weight loss diets and astrology. Whenever I see one of these ads I am reminded of a stunt played out several years ago by Allen Funt of "Candid Camera" that clearly demonstrated the side of human nature that makes such advertising possible. With cameras in full view, fake "product demonstrators" would offer people passing through a grocery store the opportunity to taste-test a "new soft drink." What the victims didn't know was that they were being given a horrendous concoction of castor oil, garlic juice, tabasco sauce and several other foul-tasting ingredients. After taking a nice, big swallow, as instructed by the demonstrators, the unwitting victims provided huge laughs for the audience by desperately trying to conceal their anguish and disgust. Some literally turned away from the cameras and spit the offending potion on the floor. The fascinating part came when about one out of four of the victims would actually turn back to the cameras and proclaim the new drink was "Great" or "Unique" or, in several cases, "One of the best things I've ever tasted!" Go figure. The point is, compiling "personal testimonials" for a product is one of the easiest things an advertising company can do - and one of the safest, too. You see, as long as they are only expressing some one else's personal opinion, they don't have to prove a thing! It's just an opinion, and needs no basis in fact whatsoever. On the other hand, there has been documented, careful scientific analysis done on numerous oil additives by accredited institutions and researchers. For example: Avco Lycoming, a major manufacturer of aircraft engines, states, "We have tried every additive we could find on the market, and they are all worthless." Briggs and Stratton, renowned builders of some of the most durable engines in the world, says in their report on engine oil additives, "They do not appear to offer any benefits." North Dakota State University conducted tests on oil additives and said in their report, "The theory sounds good - the only problem is that the products simply don't work." And finally, Ed Hackett, chemist at the University of Nevada Desert Research Center, says, "Oil additives should not be used. The oil companies have gone to great lengths to develop an additive pack age that meets the vehicle's requirements. If you add anything to this oil you may upset the balance and prevent the oil from performing to specification." Petrolon, Inc., of Houston, Texas, makers of Petrolon and producers of at least a dozen other lubrication products containing PTFE, including Slick 50 and Slick 30 Motorcycle Formula, claim that, "Multiple tests by independent laboratories have shown that when properly applied to an automotive engine, Slick 50 Engine Formula reduces wear on engine parts. Test results have shown that Slick 50 treated engines sustained 50 percent less wear than test engines run with premium motor oil alone." Sounds pretty convincing, doesn't it? The problem is, Petrolon and the other oil additive companies that claim "scientific evidence" from "independent laboratories," all refuse to identify the laboratories that conducted the tests or the criteria under which the tests were conducted. They claim they are "contractually bound" by the laboratories to not reveal their identities. In addition, the claim of "50 percent less wear" has never been proven on anything approaching a long-term basis. Typical examples used to support the additive makers' claims involve engines run from 100 to 200 hours after treatment, during which time the amount of wear particles in the oil decreased. While this has proven to be true in some cases, it has also been proven that after 400 to 500 hours of running the test engines invariably reverted to producing just as many wear particles as before treatment, and in some cases, even more. No matter what the additive makers would like you to believe, nothing has been proven to stop normal engine wear. You will note that all of the research facilities quoted in this article are clearly identified. They have no problem with making their findings public. You will also note that virtually all of their findings about oil additives are negative. That's not because we wanted to give a biased report against oil additives - it's because we couldn't find a single laboratory, engine manufacturer or independent research facility who would make a public claim, with their name attached to it, that any of the additives were actually beneficial to an engine. The conclusion seems inescapable. As a final note on advertising hype versus the real world, we saw a television ad the other night for Slick 50 oil additive. The ad encouraged people to buy their product on the basis of the fact that, "Over 14 million Americans have tried Slick 50!" Great. We're sure you could just as easily say, "Over 14 million Americans have smoked cigarettes!"-but is that really any reason for you to try it? Of course not, because you've seen the scientific evidence of the harm it can do. The exact same principle applies here. In Conclusion The major oil companies are some of the richest, most powerful and aggressive corporations in world. They own multi-million dollar research facilities manned by some of the best chemical engineers money can hire. It is probably safe to say that any one of them has the capabilities and resources at hand in marketing, distribution, advertising, research and product development equal to 20 times that of any of the independent additive companies. It therefore stands to reason that if any of these additive products were actually capable of improving the capabilities of engine lubricants, the major oil companies would have been able to determine that and to find some way to cash in on it. Yet of all the oil additives we found, none carried the name or endorsement of any of the major oil producers. In addition, all of the major vehicle and engine manufacturers spend millions of dollars each year trying to increase the longevity of their products, and millions more paying off warranty claims when their products fail. Again, it only stands to reason that if they thought any of these additives would increase the life or improve the performance of their engines, they would be actively using and selling them - or at least endorsing their use. Instead, many of them advise against the use of these additives and, in some cases, threaten to void their warranty coverage if such things are found to be used in their products. In any story of this nature, absolute "facts" are virtually impossible to come by. Opinions abound. Evidence that points one direction or the other is avail able, but has to be carefully ferreted out, and is not always totally reliable or completely verifiable. In this environment, conclusions reached by known, knowledgeable experts in the field must be given a certain amount of weight. Conclusions reached by unknown, unidentifiable sources must be discounted almost totally. That which is left must be weighed, one side against the other, in an attempt to reach a "reasonable" conclusion. In the case of oil additives, there is a considerable volume of evidence against their effectiveness. This evidence comes from well-known and identifiable expert sources, including independent research laboratories, state universities, major engine manufacturers, and even NASA. Against this rather formidable barrage of scientific research, additive makers offer not much more than their own claims of effectiveness, plus questionable and totally unscientific personal testimonials. Though the purveyors of these products state they have studies from other independent laboratories supporting their claims, they refuse to identify the labs or provide copies of the research. The only test results they will share are those from their own testing departments, which must, by their very nature, be taken with a rather large grain of salt. Sidebar: Synthetic Oils Whenever we talk about oil additives, the subject of synthetic oils inevitably crops up. Actually, the two subjects have very little to do with each other, but since many riders seem to equate additives and synthetics together in their minds, we will take a few lines just to clear the air. Synthetic oils were originally developed for use in gas turbine engines. In most cases they are capable of maintaining their viscosity for longer periods of use and under much greater temperatures and pressures than petroleum products. Commons synthetics used for engine lubrication today are Polyalphaolefin (like Mobil 1) or Dibasic Organic Esters (like AMSOIL). They are fully compatible with conventional oils and can be mixed, providing their ratings match. Probably the best situation is a blend of synthetics and mineral oils, such as Golden Spectro and AGIP Sint 2000. These products seem to offer the best of both worlds in protection and extended service life. They may cost considerably more than standard petroleum products, but they also can be used for much longer periods between oil changes without losing their protective capabilities. Synthetics and synthetic blends offer a wider range of protection than standard petroleum products. However, it should be noted that this extended range of protection reaches into an area of temperatures and pressures virtually impossible to attain inside most motorcycle engines and transmissions. In other words, if you use them, you are buying a sort of "overkill protection." It's certainly not going to hurt anything - it's just unnecessary. That is, unless it makes you feel better knowing the extra protection is on board, in which case the added expense may be well justified. As a basic rule of thumb, using the standard engine oil recommended by your bike's manufacturer and changing it about every 3000 miles will afford you all the protection you'll ever need. But if you feel better knowing you have more protection than you need or, if you like the extended service-life feature, there's certainly nothing wrong with using a premium grade synthetic blend lubricant. -- tom coradeschi <+> tcora@pica.army.mil -- |\_/| .-------------------------------------------. | @ @ Like... Woof! | Dave Zykin (zykin@noc.usfca.edu) | | <> _ | | | _/\------____ ((| |)) | : A dog may bark all night, but his legs | | `--' | | will not grow longer. | ____|_ ___| |___.' | | /_/_____/____/_______| `-------------------------------------------' Redistributed by Rick Fisher Dentman711@AOL.COM by Post-Office.UH.EDU (PMDF V5.0-5 #8380) 14 Dec 1995 00:00:30 -0600 (CST) ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Wed, 13 Dec 1995 23:59:14 -0600 (CST) From: kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu (Kent Polk) Subject: Re: Teflon mystery solved! (1/2) (from Dentman711@aol.com) (at Wed, 13 Dec 1995 20:10:02 -0500) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Hi Dentman711 (Dentman711), in <951213200946_132636249@emout04.mail.aol.com> on Dec 13 you wrote: > ------------------------------------------------------------------------- > Snake Oil! > Is That Additive Really A Negative? Precisely... (Thanks for re-posting) BTW, SwRI is one of those labs which never comment on anything. As might be read into the comments of this article, people tend to assume that if a lab isn't willing to comment, then they must be hiding something, etc. SwRI (I'm no spokesman btw...) is a 'contract research' institution. That means that we simple perform research for others (who happen to have some money :^). Most often, by contract we cannot comment on any of that research and simply turn the results over to the client who then is responsible for handling the information. Kent Polk: Southwest Research Institute Internet : kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 16:58:05 -0700 To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu From: edjohns@AZStarNet.com (Philip E. (Ed) Johnson) Subject: Re: Winter Gloves Juan, if you plan to get as far south as Tucson, let me know and I can tell you a bit about it. (Half the size but twice as nice as Phoenix; and the University of Arizona just beat Arizona State in football. Sorry, Neill.) Temperature today was 75. About a week ago, I saw a strange looking white fuzzy thing in the sky; wasn't sure what it was. Been completely clear ever since,though. Ho hum. Just another day in paradise. There is a nice Arizona home page on the net you might enjoy; Warm (!) regards- Ed Johnson Juan- I tholught I sent this a couple of weeks ago, but apparently I screwed up- Ed ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 15:27:04 -0900 (AKST) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu From: "Juan A. Goula" Subject: Winter Gloves At 04:58 PM 12/14/95 -0700, you wrote: >Juan, if you plan to get as far south as Tucson, let me know and I can tell... [snip] >Ed Johnson > > >Juan- I tholught I sent this a couple of weeks ago, but apparently I screwed up- > >Ed Hello Ed. I did receive it and pretty sure I responded to it. To recap: I don't believe we'll have time to make it down to Tucson this trip, but nothing written in stone as of yet. Neill Was trying to get all of the AZ PC800 subscribers to meet one day and go for a ride. Any further developments Neill? Anyway Ed, thanks for the offer. It would be great to meet my fellow PC'ers while I'm down there. See you (maybe) in about three weeks. Stay cool! : - ) Juan ------------------------------------------------------------------ Back in territorial days, a popular law in Alaska allowed for shooting anyone that asked: "Cold enough for ya?" Juan A. Goula School of Fisheries & Ocean Sciences University of Alaska Fairbanks AMA # 532390 \\\\ HSTA # 4995RG 1990 Honda PC800 \\\\ 1993 Arctic Cat Panther DLX ----------------------------------------------------------------- ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 23:52:21 -0500 From: JeffHO@aol.com To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Subject: Season's over : ( Well, with six inches of fresh snow on the ground, I'm finally prepared to concede that the riding season here in Boston is over. My last ride was Tuesday, temps between 25 and (return trip later in the day) 30. I layered till I looked like the Michelin man and found it not too bad--did get cold finger tips and knees and had some problems with fogging since my balaclava seemed to direct my breath right up under my sun glasses. Did hit a small patch of ice on purpose at low speed--thought it would be educational. It was, and I spent the rest of the ride feverishly scanning for other patches. I'm spending a week around Xmas in Houston with my mother. I can't recall at the moment who on the list lives there, but if you're in the area around Rice U. (or, really, anywhere inside the loop and west of downtown) and you see a youngish guy with a ponytail waving at you like an idiot, that'll be me. Happy holidays, all. <> ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** To: pc800@hpc.uh.edu Cc: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Subject: Re: Season's over : ( Date: Thu, 14 Dec 1995 23:46:16 -0600 From: Jason L Tibbitts III >>>>> "J" == JeffHO writes: J> Well, with six inches of fresh snow on the ground, I'm finally prepared J> to concede that the riding season here in Boston is over. My last ride J> was Tuesday, temps between 25 and (return trip later in the day) 30. I rode the other day while it was 27F. That prompted me to go to a good dealer and buy "the warmest gloves you have". Since I have a circulation problem in my hands this is somewhat important. I also ordered a balaclava and a chin dam today (and some wee willies for stocking stuffers). You may be able to guess that I don't own a car. J> I'm spending a week around Xmas in Houston with my mother. I can't J> recall at the moment who on the list lives there, That would be me. The "uh" in hpc.uh.edu stands for University of Houston. There was another member in Houston but he sold his PC and moved to Alaska. What is it about Alaska, anyway? And, of course, Kent's in San Antonio which is just a few New England states down the freeway. Really just a stone's throw in Texas terms. J> but if you're in the area around Rice U. (or, really, anywhere inside J> the loop and west of downtown) and you see a youngish guy with a J> ponytail waving at you like an idiot, that'll be me. Well, I'm just inside the loop, across from the Galleria. (713) 627-8218 home, 743-8684 office if you have absolutely nothing to do one day. --- Jason L. Tibbitts III - tibbs@uh.edu - 713/743-8684 - 221SR1 System Manager: Texas Center for Advanced Molecular Computation 1994 PC800 "Kuroneko" DoD# 1723 ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 00:48:52 -0500 From: TedJ101@aol.com To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Subject: Re: 30% discount on parts In a message dated 95-12-03 07:27:32 EST, pckwong@hkuxa.hku.hk (VR2XVI) writes: >Any info. about aux. Police of your County/State? I know these are nothing >related to PC800s. Happy pacific coasting! For what it's worth, we don't have auxiliary police in my State. ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: 15 Dec 95 07:41:01 EST From: "Dana L. Sawyer" <71430.340@compuserve.com> To: HondaPacificCoastOwners Subject: Merry Christmas! Best wishes to all of you folks for a truly fantastic year in 1996! I hope to meet some of you somewhere "on the road!" May your year be as trouble-free as your Honda PC800 Pacific Coast! Make a resolution to join Lynn and I at STAR '96, the 14th national rally of the Honda Sport Touring Association, to be held June 23-27, 1996 at the Canaan Valley Resort, Davis, West Virginia. Be real careful out there! Dana, Lynn & Laura Sawyer 15 Dec 1995 09:45:49 -0600 (CST) ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 09:44:22 -0600 (CST) From: kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu (Kent Polk) Subject: Re: Season's over : ( (from Jason L Tibbitts III ) (at Thu, 14 Dec 1995 23:46:16 -0600) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Hi Jason (Jason L Tibbitts III), in <9512150546.AA22644@hpc.uh.edu> on Dec 14 you wrote: > to Alaska. What is it about Alaska, anyway? And, of course, Kent's in San > Antonio which is just a few New England states down the freeway. Really > just a stone's throw in Texas terms. Well, maybe TWO stone's throw (serial fashion)... While only about 1/4 across the state it's still about a 5 hour slab ride. And since I really live past Helotes, which is NW of S.A., add another hour... As to cold-weather riding gloves, I'm still wearing my 15 yr old three fingered "shooter's" style riding gloves. Thumb and index figer are separate and all the rest of the fingers stay together for extra warmth. Haven't replaced them since I can't find anyone who makes them anymore and I can't find anything that works as well. Lining is getting pretty thin. :^( Kent Polk: Southwest Research Institute Internet : kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Fri, 15 Dec 1995 08:18:49 -0800 ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 08:16:18 -0800 From: Steve Gross To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Subject: Re: Season's over : ( Kent, Try any military surplus store or hunting store for those gloves. There's also a catalog by a supplier name Cabela (DAVE!!! Give Kent the address) That might/should have'em. Kent Polk wrote: > As to cold-weather riding gloves, I'm still wearing my 15 yr old three > fingered "shooter's" style riding gloves. Thumb and index figer are > separate and all the rest of the fingers stay together for extra warmth. > Haven't replaced them since I can't find anyone who makes them anymore > and I can't find anything that works as well. Lining is getting pretty > thin. :^( -- Steve Gross "This _must_ be a test... If it were my real life, they'd've given me better instructions, right?" ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu (Kent Polk) Subject: Re: Season's over : ( (from Steve Gross ) (at Fri, 15 Dec 1995 08:16:18 -0800) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Date: Fri, 15 Dec 95 10:27:17 CST Hi Steve (Steve Gross), in <30D19F52.98C@halcyon.com> on Dec 15 you wrote: > Kent, > > Try any military surplus store or hunting store for those gloves. > There's also a catalog by a supplier name Cabela (DAVE!!! Give Kent the > address) That might/should have'em. > > Kent Polk wrote: > > As to cold-weather riding gloves, I'm still wearing my 15 yr old three > > fingered "shooter's" style riding gloves. Thumb and index figer are ^^^^^^^^^^^^ Thanks, But are they real riding gloves??? Mine have some nice extra features the shooter's gloves don't have. :^( I have a feeling I'll end up relining these things... Kent Polk: Southwest Research Institute Internet : kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Fri, 15 Dec 1995 09:21:47 -0800 ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 09:21:47 -0800 To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu From: dkgross@halcyon.com (David Gross) Subject: Re: Season's over : ( grr...already trashed the catalog..DOH ------------ Dave Gross & Baron George Von Helldog "It's gotta groove..." ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 10:00:53 -0800 (PST) From: Johan Lai To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Subject: Re: Season's over : ( On Fri, 15 Dec 1995, David Gross wrote: > grr...already trashed the catalog..DOH > > > ------------ > Dave Gross & Baron George Von Helldog > "It's gotta groove..." > > > Here ya go Cabela's 812-13th Avenue Sidney, NB 69160 800/237-4444 ========================================================================= Johan Lai UUCP Mail: None Unix Systems Admin Internet Mail: jlai@filenet.com Engineering Services Snail Mail: 3565 Harbor Boulevard FileNet Corporation Costa Mesa, CA 92626 "System Administration: It's a dirty job, somebody said I had to do it." ========================================================================= ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 10:04:46 -0800 (PST) From: Johan Lai To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Subject: Re: 30% discount on parts On Fri, 15 Dec 1995 TedJ101@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 95-12-03 07:27:32 EST, pckwong@hkuxa.hku.hk (VR2XVI) > writes: > > >Any info. about aux. Police of your County/State? I know these are nothing > >related to PC800s. Happy pacific coasting! > > For what it's worth, we don't have auxiliary police in my State. > > We don't have auxiliary police here either. But I believe there are reserve officers at the county and city level who are similar to our military reserves. They have their normal jobs and they do reserve duty part time. Something like 20 hours/month. I work with a reserver sheriff for our county. ========================================================================= Johan Lai UUCP Mail: None Unix Systems Admin Internet Mail: jlai@filenet.com Engineering Services Snail Mail: 3565 Harbor Boulevard FileNet Corporation Costa Mesa, CA 92626 "System Administration: It's a dirty job, somebody said I had to do it." ========================================================================= ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 09:29:55 -0900 (AKST) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu From: "Juan A. Goula" Subject: Re: Season's over : ( At 09:44 AM 12/15/95 -0600, you wrote: >As to cold-weather riding gloves, I'm still wearing my 15 yr old three >fingered "shooter's" style riding gloves. Thumb and index figer are >separate and all the rest of the fingers stay together for extra warmth. >Haven't replaced them since I can't find anyone who makes them anymore >and I can't find anything that works as well. Lining is getting pretty >thin. :^( Kent, I've seen these "penguin" gloves that might fit the bill. They have a separate thumb, then two groups of two fingers each. Might work for you. Juan ------------------------------------------------------------------ Back in territorial days, a popular law in Alaska allowed for shooting anyone that asked: "Cold enough for ya?" Juan A. Goula School of Fisheries & Ocean Sciences University of Alaska Fairbanks AMA # 532390 \\\\ HSTA # 4995RG 1990 Honda PC800 \\\\ 1993 Arctic Cat Panther DLX ----------------------------------------------------------------- 15 Dec 1995 12:34:31 -0600 (CST) ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 12:33:03 -0600 (CST) From: kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu (Kent Polk) Subject: Re: Season's over : ( (from "Juan A. Goula" ) (at Fri, 15 Dec 1995 09:29:55 -0900 (AKST)) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Hi Juan (Juan A. Goula), in <199512151829.JAA13373@jarvis.ims.alaska.edu> on Dec 15 you wrote: > Kent, I've seen these "penguin" gloves that might fit the bill. They have a > separate thumb, then two groups of two fingers each. Might work for you. Thanks, but I don't like those. I need my index finger all by itself. :^) Kent Polk: Southwest Research Institute Internet : kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Fri, 15 Dec 95 14:14:06 est From: Roger_Prince@DGC.MCEO.DG.COM To: "pc800"@MSC.MCEO.DG.COM Subject: Forwarded: Re: Season's over : ( ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: Roger Prince:DGC Date: ## 12/15/95 14:19 ## Can you "sign" with those gloves? ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: ("Juan A. Goula") jgoula@ims.alaska.edu:dg-smtp Date: ## 12/15/95 09:29 ## At 09:44 AM 12/15/95 -0600, you wrote: >As to cold-weather riding gloves, I'm still wearing my 15 yr old three >fingered "shooter's" style riding gloves. Thumb and index figer are >separate and all the rest of the fingers stay together for extra warmth. >Haven't replaced them since I can't find anyone who makes them anymore >and I can't find anything that works as well. Lining is getting pretty >thin. :^( Kent, I've seen these "penguin" gloves that might fit the bill. They have a separate thumb, then two groups of two fingers each. Might work for you. Juan ------------------------------------------------------------------ Back in territorial days, a popular law in Alaska allowed for shooting anyone that asked: "Cold enough for ya?" Juan A. Goula School of Fisheries & Ocean Sciences University of Alaska Fairbanks AMA # 532390 \\\\ HSTA # 4995RG 1990 Honda PC800 \\\\ 1993 Arctic Cat Panther DLX ----------------------------------------------------------------- ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 10:23:02 -0900 (AKST) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu From: "Juan A. Goula" Subject: Re: Forwarded: Re: Season's over : ( At 02:14 PM 12/15/95 -0500, you wrote: >From: Roger Prince:DGC >Date: ## 12/15/95 14:19 ## >Can you "sign" with those gloves? > >From: ("Juan A. Goula") jgoula@ims.alaska.edu:dg-smtp >Date: ## 12/15/95 09:29 ## >At 09:44 AM 12/15/95 -0600, you wrote: >Kent, I've seen these "penguin" gloves that might fit the bill. They have a >separate thumb, then two groups of two fingers each. Might work for you. Well Roger, you can do a heck of a Vulcan "Live Long and Prosper" salute! : - ) ------------------------------------------------------------------ Back in territorial days, a popular law in Alaska allowed for shooting anyone that asked: "Cold enough for ya?" Juan A. Goula School of Fisheries & Ocean Sciences University of Alaska Fairbanks AMA # 532390 \\\\ HSTA # 4995RG 1990 Honda PC800 \\\\ 1993 Arctic Cat Panther DLX ----------------------------------------------------------------- (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Fri, 15 Dec 1995 18:14:51 -0800 ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 18:12:20 -0800 From: Steve Gross To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Subject: Re: 3 finger gloves Kent Polk wrote: ^^^^^^^^^^^^ > Thanks, > But are they real riding gloves??? Mine have some nice extra features > the shooter's gloves don't have. :^( I have a feeling I'll end up > relining these things... Hmmm, don't remember. . . I think the military one might; they're Gortex shells with different types of liners... Maybe just the liners for yours? -- Steve Gross "This _must_ be a test... If it were my real life, they'd've given me better instructions, right?" (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Fri, 15 Dec 1995 18:21:46 -0800 ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Fri, 15 Dec 1995 18:19:15 -0800 From: Steve Gross To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Subject: Re: Season's over : ( Johan Lai wrote: > > Cabela's > 812-13th Avenue > Sidney, NB 69160 > 800/237-4444 > Thanks Johan. My brother, who never throws anything away...... -- Steve Gross "This _must_ be a test... If it were my real life, they'd've given me better instructions, right?" 16 Dec 1995 08:42:39 -0700 (PDT) ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 08:39:14 -0700 From: _spain@edsug.com (Harrison Spain) Subject: Re: SAENG Stealth Edging To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu >Hi Harrison: > >Thanks for the input on the Edging. > >In a message dated 95-12-07 09:36:45 EST, you write: > >>I guess I'm more frustrated by my helmet design that is quieter (by a LOT) >>when the face shield is up rather than down! > >I've had this problem on a couple of helmets. I'm not sure what type of hat >you wear, but one thing that might help is to be sure there is a good seal >across the top of the shield. An extra layer of rubber to fill any gap >between the shield and the helmet can result in better airflow and less >noise. I'll take another look, thanks! I did notice that my tinted faceshield reduces the noise over my clear faceshield. I suspect the seal also. I'm using a Shoei RF700 (hope I spelled this right) :-). | Harrison M. Spain | Voice: (714) 952-6114 | | Systems Support Manager | Fax: (714) 952-5371 | | EDS Unigraphics | Internet: _spain@ug.eds.com | | Cypress, CA 90630 | UUCP: ...uunet!ug!_spain | 16 Dec 1995 08:46:59 -0700 (PDT) ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 08:43:34 -0700 From: _spain@edsug.com (Harrison Spain) Subject: Re: New Subscriber To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu >> Hello. My name is Steve Schibuola, I live in Laguna Beach, CA, and I >>just bought >> a 1989 PC800 with 5000 miles on the clock. >> >> > >Welcome Steve! Maybe you, Harrison (in Cypress), and I could get >together for a ride sometime! Outstanding idea! Three PCs going down the freeway would be awesome sight! I just did the Ortega loop last weekend but I'm game for any trip (now that I have my backrest, my *range* has improved considerably) :-). | Harrison M. Spain | Voice: (714) 952-6114 | | Systems Support Manager | Fax: (714) 952-5371 | | EDS Unigraphics | Internet: _spain@ug.eds.com | | Cypress, CA 90630 | UUCP: ...uunet!ug!_spain | 16 Dec 1995 08:37:23 -0700 (PDT) ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 08:33:57 -0700 From: _spain@edsug.com (Harrison Spain) Subject: Utopia backrest for the PC800 To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu My Utopia backrest for the PC finally arrived (they say two weeks but it really takes three) and I installed it right away. The order form gives you a sample of the material they use. The price is about $119 as I recall and you can pay an extra $10 for a widget that wraps around the bar. I know you have no idea what I'm talking about but I would recommend that you add on the extra $10 and get the widget :-). After riding with the backrest for a few days, I wonder how I ever did without it! I would have payed twice as much happily! The color and texture match is perfect. It looks factory installed. I too had some concerns about cutting a slot in the rear seat but after you get this puppy installed, your concerns will vanish. Here is the install process. First read, re-read, and then re-read again the instructions. They are indeed clear; that is once you have installed it the first time :-). (1) Remove the four bolts (in my case since I have the Honda passenger backrest installed) holding the *rear* seat to the trunk. (2) Turn the seat over and place the long bar along the middle as shown in the diagram. The diagram is pretty accurate but you will look at it for a while until you convince yourself that you have it 'right'. (3) Once everything is bolted together, the long bar end will slip *under* one of the frame bars and the top part of the long bar will hook over the other frame bar. You have to have one in your hand to picture this :-). For a while, I thought the long bar end went over the bar but this is not the case. The instructions say it is sandwitched between the frame and the seat but it actually goes under the bar :-). (4) Mark the two holes and drill the holes as specified in the instructions. (5) Now for the fun part. Get out your exacto blade and get ready to cut a 1.5" slot in the rear seat. Convince yourself that if all goes to heck you can always replace the seat ;-). The 1.5" slot is located just as the instructions say. Put it right behind the second row of stiching just like the diagram and center it (side to side). The diagram is hand drawn so this is not as clear as it should be :-). Clean the seat (if dirty) and cut the slot! (6) Find the piece of tough plastic that covers the slot. Remove the backing and press over the slot. It looks kinda odd, but once the seat is installed, this slot cover really looks great. (7) Now for the challenging part. Get a cerrated knife and cut down through the slot toward the two holes that you drilled. Get used to doing this because it will take several passes before you get the angular bracket (it forms a 90 degree angle) down through the foam properly. (8) Take the long bar and the bracket and convince yourself (based on the instructions picture) that you have them oriented correctly. The next step is to take the angular bracket and force it through the slot such that the holes in the bracket allign with the holes you drilled in the bottom of the seat. This is easier said than done! It took my about 45 minutes to get it down and alligned. Here are the tricks I used. First, make sure that the slot is cut fully down to the bottom of the seat. Next, when you are forcing the bracket down, try to angle it such that the lower edge goes straight down to the bottom of the seat and then twist the bracket in an attempt to allign the holes. Another tip is to bolt the seat to the bracket for additional leverage. Even will all that, I found that I could get it close but not close enough to bolt the two pieces together. I suppose I could have purchased some longer bolts but it was too late at night. Here is how to make the stock bolts work. Once you have the holes close, put in the bolts without the bracket. Yep, just bolt the bottom of the seat to the bracket and tighten. This compresses the foam. Next, unbolt the bracket, put the long bar in place, and then bolt them both together. (9) At this point you will be feeling pretty good about the install. You have only one large hurdle to get over. That is getting the rear seat back in place. You will probably need the help of someone else to either sit on the seat (in an attempt to allign the holes) or just cheer you on when you get tired. It does not just drop in and bolt in place. You have to slide the end of the long bar (now bolted to the bottom of the seat) under the rear frame bar (you have to picture this) and then 'hook' the front lip of the long bar *over* the front frame bar. I'm sure you will see how this is done once you have the parts in place. The only problem is that the long bar does not fit under a flat part of the frame so this throws it off just a little bit. Also to hook the front lip of the long bar over that front frame bar takes some pushing and cajoling. Once you have everything alligned, you will probably have to have someone sit on the rear set to compress everything and get the four bolts back in place. I'm not sure I will every remove those bolts again :-). (10) You can make several adjustments to the height and angle of the backrest. I left the height standard (it fits my back perfectly). The angle is adjusted with a screw that can actually be adjusted while you sit at a stoplight! Once I get it in the 'perfect' position (it is close now), I will put some screw tight on it to keep it from changing. --- Don't let the length of this article turn you off from this excellent product. If you want a rider backrest for the PC, this is DEFINATELY the way to go! :-) | Harrison M. Spain | Voice: (714) 952-6114 | | Systems Support Manager | Fax: (714) 952-5371 | | EDS Unigraphics | Internet: _spain@ug.eds.com | | Cypress, CA 90630 | UUCP: ...uunet!ug!_spain | (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Sat, 16 Dec 1995 09:39:56 -0800 ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 09:39:56 -0800 To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu From: dkgross@halcyon.com (David Gross) Subject: Re: Utopia backrest for the PC800 how about taking a photo of the bike with the backrest on it as a close up and posting it to the www page?? ------------ Dave Gross & Baron George Von Helldog "It's gotta groove..." 16 Dec 1995 16:10:20 -0700 (PDT) ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 16:06:56 -0700 From: _spain@edsug.com (Harrison Spain) Subject: Re: Utopia backrest for the PC800 To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu >how about taking a photo of the bike with the backrest on it as a close up >and posting it to the www page?? > > >------------ >Dave Gross & Baron George Von Helldog >"It's gotta groove..." Let me see what I can do. Givew me some time to take some shots, get them scanned, and then mail the GIF to whomever supports the WWW server :-). | Harrison M. Spain | Voice: (714) 952-6114 | | Systems Support Manager | Fax: (714) 952-5371 | | EDS Unigraphics | Internet: _spain@ug.eds.com | | Cypress, CA 90630 | UUCP: ...uunet!ug!_spain | 16 Dec 1995 16:12:50 -0700 (PDT) ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Sat, 16 Dec 1995 16:09:26 -0700 From: _spain@edsug.com (Harrison Spain) Subject: Was that you Kent? To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu I saw an ad in the rec.motorcycles selling off a Moto Guzzi. I thought I saw a familiar name :-). | Harrison M. Spain | Voice: (714) 952-6114 | | Systems Support Manager | Fax: (714) 952-5371 | | EDS Unigraphics | Internet: _spain@ug.eds.com | | Cypress, CA 90630 | UUCP: ...uunet!ug!_spain | ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Sun, 17 Dec 1995 01:29:57 -0500 From: JTSMCRIDER@aol.com To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Subject: Re: Season's over : ( In a message dated 95-12-15 13:33:06 EST, Juan wrote: >Kent, I've seen these "penguin" gloves that might fit the bill. They have a >separate thumb, then two groups of two fingers each. Might work for you. > >Juan I have this sort of glove, and they work great. The only trouble is I got them when I was in Germany about 15 years ago. So, I don't know where to get them now. If anyone knows where they are available, I'd sure like to get a couple pairs. JT ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 09:48:32 -0600 Mon, 18 Dec 1995 10:48:01 -0500 (EST) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu From: "Waldo E. Meeks" Subject: Gas Smell Hi Group, Not long ago there was a disscussion concerning gas fuel smell after a ride when the PC was turned off. I think I have determined the reason for that at least on my bike. I park my bike in a garage after a ride and close the garage door and I have been have a fairly strong gas smell for a while afterward. The smell appeared to be the strongest around the filler cap area so I tried this. Immediately following a ride I took the gas cap off and put a piece of plastic (like garbage bag plastic) over the filler hole and put the cap back on. I checked this four more times. Two times without the plastic and two times with the plactic. Each time I used the plastic I had no smell what so ever. Each time I did not use the plactic the same fume smell returned. I can only assume there is a check valve built into the cap that has stopped working. (You folks in California have close vent sytems so you probably are not having this problem) Anyone have any thoughts or data on this. I have not priced a new cap yet to determine what the payments will be (ha ha) knowing Honda parts prices. Merrry Christmas to all!! Waldo GSU ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu (Kent Polk) Subject: Re: Was that you Kent? (from _spain@edsug.com (Harrison Spain)) (at Sat, 16 Dec 1995 16:09:26 -0700) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Date: Mon, 18 Dec 95 10:00:44 CST Hi Harrison (Harrison Spain), in on Dec 16 you wrote: > I saw an ad in the rec.motorcycles selling off a Moto Guzzi. I thought I > saw a familiar name :-). You didn't check the Reply-to: :^) I wish I had that MotoGuzzi to sell. I posted for a friend. Rode that bike. Great bike. Beautiful bike. He was selling to trade up to an SPIII. Me? I'm still waiting for M.G. to come out with a pushrod, fuel-injected 'Sport' version of the Daytona for under $10k. I'd bite. In a heartbeat. I don't see anything else out there that would be worth my time. The PC will do fine till then (I hope it lasts long enough). And I'm just about far enough along with the house to move in. Maybe before the new year. I'm going to give myself a big reward this next year. I'm gonna take a long ride... Pack my tent and hit the road this spring for a few weeks. Put some miiiiles on that bike, baby! Gotta figure out a way to drop the bars first, though... Kent Polk: Southwest Research Institute Internet : kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu 18 Dec 1995 10:11:17 -0600 (CST) ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 10:09:45 -0600 (CST) From: kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu (Kent Polk) Subject: Re: Gas Smell (from "Waldo E. Meeks" ) (at Mon, 18 Dec 1995 09:48:32 -0600) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Hi Waldo (Waldo E. Meeks), in <9512181548.AA02585@hpc.uh.edu> on Dec 18 you wrote: > Hi Group, > > Not long ago there was a disscussion concerning gas fuel smell after a ride > when the PC was turned off. I think I have determined the reason for that > at least on my bike. > > I park my bike in a garage after a ride and close the garage door and I have > been have a fairly strong gas smell for a while afterward. [...] > I can only assume there is a check valve built into the cap that has stopped > working. (You folks in California have close vent sytems so you probably > are not having this problem) > > Anyone have any thoughts or data on this. I have not priced a new cap yet > to determine what the payments will be (ha ha) knowing Honda parts prices. ~$40 I bought one before I found my diaphram problem. However, Something new is amiss with the bike - still related to fuel 'dumping'. The bike worked great until about a month ago. I first noticed my fuel mileage dropping again, then the fuel smell again. The mileage only drops when I make short runs on the bike. When I run a tankful without stopping, there's no problem. And this time, the smell only occurs right after the bike is shut down and doesn't last very long. It's like something in the system is relieving the fuel pressure when the engine is shut down and is spewing fuel at the same time. Once that pressure is relieved, nothing else escapes. Thus it appears different from the petcock problem (and I see no evidence of petcock leaking either). I don't have time right now to look into it. Figure after I move into the house I'll tear the bike down and try to figure it out. Kent Polk: Southwest Research Institute Internet : kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 10:40:42 -0600 Mon, 18 Dec 1995 11:40:12 -0500 (EST) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu From: "Waldo E. Meeks" Subject: Re: Gas Smell I have not priced a new cap yet >> to determine what the payments will be (ha ha) knowing Honda parts prices. > >~$40 I bought one before I found my diaphram problem. > Hi Kent, At these prices I think I will sell my bike PIECE BY PIECE and have enough money to buy a couple of new PCs, a new ST1100 and maybe take my wife on a round the world cruse. Take Care Waldo GSU ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 08:31:17 -0900 (AKST) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu From: "Juan A. Goula" Subject: Re: Season's over : ( JT, let me see if I can find the article reviewing these gloves & I'll let you know. Juan >>Kent, I've seen these "penguin" gloves that might fit the bill. They have a >>separate thumb, then two groups of two fingers each. Might work for you. >> >>Juan > >I have this sort of glove, and they work great. The only trouble is I got >them when I was in Germany about 15 years ago. So, I don't know where to get >them now. If anyone knows where they are available, I'd sure like to get a >couple pairs. > >JT > > ------------------------------------------------------------------ Back in territorial days, a popular law in Alaska allowed for shooting anyone that asked: "Cold enough for ya?" Juan A. Goula School of Fisheries & Ocean Sciences University of Alaska Fairbanks AMA # 532390 \\\\ HSTA # 4995RG 1990 Honda PC800 \\\\ 1993 Arctic Cat Panther DLX ----------------------------------------------------------------- ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu (Kent Polk) Subject: Re: Gas Smell (from "Waldo E. Meeks" ) (at Mon, 18 Dec 1995 10:40:42 -0600) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Date: Mon, 18 Dec 95 13:44:02 CST Hi Waldo (Waldo E. Meeks), in <9512181640.AA03463@hpc.uh.edu> on Dec 18 you wrote: > >~$40 I bought one before I found my diaphram problem. > > At these prices I think I will sell my bike PIECE BY PIECE and have enough > money to buy a couple of new PCs, a new ST1100 and maybe take my wife on a > round the world cruse. Know what you mean. Though it's not just the PC. Seems that almost everything is getting this way. Had to buy an air filter and new fuel cap for a CASE diesel last week... $75 for the filter and $45 for the cap. Yuuuk. Kent Polk: Southwest Research Institute Internet : kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: Bryce Ulrich To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Date: Mon, 18 Dec 95 10:49:06 TZ Subject: Re: Gas Smell Someone mentioned way back that the gas cap was the same as an older Civic. Cheaper replacement possibility I guess. I left my gas cap at a gas station way across the state. $35 later I now leave the gas cap in the fuel "pocket" when filling up. No more lost caps. \"/ Regarding the fuel smell, I finally took the time to replace the petcock this weekend. Preliminary results (only rode 100 'cause it was raining) are no more smell, better mileage (I was as low as 35), and better low-end performance. The performance problem I had was a hesitation when accelerating after the tach was at idle (1200rpm) -- really annoying when rolling on the throttle after a stop. Oddly enough I couldn't find any pinholes in the diaphragm when I took it apart. I did notice some deterioration along some of the ridges near the outer edge. The breather along the lower edge was brown and looked as though tobacco juice had been spit on it. There some more of the juice stuff on the closest carburetor. Guess when we finally get a good freeze around here I'll clean the carbs up. Thus far I'm glad I made the replacement. $100 is too much to spend for such a simple, small part but it's worth the piece of mind. It's regular unleaded from here on out. FYI: Odometer is 36k and it's been a problem since about 22k. -bryceu ---------------------------------------------------------- Bryce Ulrich - bryceu@microsoft.com - 206/704-3205 Product Support Engineer: Microsoft Corp, Redmond, WA '89 Honda PC800 "Pearl" AMA 332198/HRCA HM711115/HSTA 6140 ---------------------------------------------------------- ---------- ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: "Waldo E. Meeks" To: Subject: Re: Gas Smell Date: Monday, December 18, 1995 10:40AM I have not priced a new cap yet >> to determine what the payments will be (ha ha) knowing Honda parts prices. > >~$40 I bought one before I found my diaphram problem. > Hi Kent, At these prices I think I will sell my bike PIECE BY PIECE and have enough money to buy a couple of new PCs, a new ST1100 and maybe take my wife on a round the world cruse. Take Care Waldo GSU ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu (Kent Polk) Subject: Re: Gas Smell (from Bryce Ulrich ) (at Mon, 18 Dec 1995 10:49:06 +0000 (TZ)) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Date: Mon, 18 Dec 95 21:13:28 CST Hi Bryce (Bryce Ulrich), in <199512181934.LAA19137@imail1.microsoft.com> on Dec 18 you wrote: > Regarding the fuel smell, I finally took the time to replace the > petcock this weekend. Preliminary results (only rode 100 'cause it Thanks for the report. You're on the list for 'fixed'. Report back if things start getting bad again like with mine... :^( Kent Polk: Southwest Research Institute Internet : kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Mon, 18 Dec 1995 23:04:36 -0500 From: JTSMCRIDER@aol.com To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Subject: Re: Trim Latch Mods OK Kent, Thanks for the info. I think I'll play with it a bit and see what I can do along the same lines. JT ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 00:19:59 -0500 From: JFMinyard@aol.com To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Subject: Re: Gas Smell In a message dated 95-12-18 14:53:55 EST, you write: >Someone mentioned way back that the gas cap was the same as an older >Civic. Cheaper replacement possibility I guess. > >I left my gas cap at a gas station way across the state. $35 later I >now leave the gas cap in the fuel "pocket" when filling up. No more >lost caps. \"/ > > I'm the one who has the Civic gas cap. I left mine at a gas station on evening and didn't want to ride the considerable distance I had left to go that night without one. Popped into a Wal-mart (at least that's what I seem to recall, it's been a few years) on a hunch, since so many have made jokes about the PC being a two wheel Civic, found a cap, and lo and behold it worked. It's not a perfect fit, doesn't look as good as the original, but it does seal. Since it's not normally displayed when riding, I've never gotten around to replacing it. Perhaps this winter since I'll be spending quite a bit of time on my bike, but more on that at another time. Getting back to the gas cap, I can't recall how much it actually cost but it has to be less than an OE cap. Jim Minyard ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 17:14:17 -0900 (AKST) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu From: "Juan A. Goula" Subject: Merry Christmas! I wanted to wish all of you PC riders out there a !Merry Christmas and Prosperous New Year! Also, many thanks to the keepers of the list and Web page, without whom this would not be possible. See y'all next year! Juan ------------------------------------------------------------------ Back in territorial days, a popular law in Alaska allowed for shooting anyone that asked: "Cold enough for ya?" Juan A. Goula School of Fisheries & Ocean Sciences University of Alaska Fairbanks AMA # 532390 \\\\ HSTA # 4995RG 1990 Honda PC800 \\\\ 1993 Arctic Cat Panther DLX ----------------------------------------------------------------- ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Tue, 19 Dec 1995 23:25:43 -0500 From: Dentman711@aol.com To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Subject: Tobacco juice? bryce That juice is varnish caused by storing gas over a long period of time. I have a 1983 60cc 3 wheeler I recently aquired with juice all in its fuel system. When I touched the pet cock in tank filters they ripped apart like a mummys underware. I installed an inline filter and removed the in tank filters. The bottom of the tank is dotted with varnish. I have to rebuild the carb on this toy just to get it to start right again. Well it was a $200 bike. Rick Fisher Dentman711@AOL.COM ***************************************************************** *1995 Honda Pacific Coast 800cc / WARNING: NON MOTORCYCLE INFO FOLLOWS... *1992 Kawasaki 750SX Highly "stock" ;-) / 1985 & 86 Kawasaki 550 (JET SKIS) *Wife & Son / 2 dogs & 1 cat ***************************************************************** ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: 20 Dec 95 01:57:14 EST From: Steve Schibuola <73414.466@compuserve.com> To: PC800 Mailing List Subject: Day-ride to Palomar Merry Christmas to all PC800 riders! This is an open invitation to PC'ers in Southern California - we are planning a day-ride to Mt. Palomar for the second weekend in January. So far, we have a convoy of three - Johan, Harrison and me (Steve). I just hope it won't be too chilly... [sorry, I've only been living in California for just over one year, moving from Toronto, Canada, and I haven't outgrown my childish urge to gloat over the weather :-) ] Please respond either via the list or directly to me by e-mail if you are interested. ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 06:08:26 est From: Roger_Prince@DGC.MCEO.DG.COM To: ("Juan_A._Goula")_jgoula@ims.alaska.edu Cc: "pc800"@MSC.MCEO.DG.COM Subject: Reply to: Merry Christmas! ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: Roger Prince:DGC Date: ## 12/20/95 06:13 ## Thanks, Juan. It's snowing heavily right now and I'm getting ready to start my 2-wheeler (the snowblower), guided past my PC by the glow of the green light on my Battery Tender. I'd also like to wish all a Merry Christmas and a Happy New Year and Happy Holidays. Roger ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: ("Juan A. Goula") jgoula@ims.alaska.edu:dg-smtp Date: ## 12/19/95 17:14 ## I wanted to wish all of you PC riders out there a !Merry Christmas and Prosperous New Year! Also, many thanks to the keepers of the list and Web page, without whom this would not be possible. See y'all next year! Juan ------------------------------------------------------------------ Back in territorial days, a popular law in Alaska allowed for shooting anyone that asked: "Cold enough for ya?" Juan A. Goula School of Fisheries & Ocean Sciences University of Alaska Fairbanks AMA # 532390 \\\\ HSTA # 4995RG 1990 Honda PC800 \\\\ 1993 Arctic Cat Panther DLX ----------------------------------------------------------------- ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 06:47:45 -0500 From: RETREADNY@aol.com To: PC800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Subject: Christmas Song The following song is posted with permission of the author : GEmail Item 2000597 95/12/19 21:58 ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: T.TRAVER Terry C. Traver ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** To: W.ST.ONGE Wesley E. St.Onge Sub: song posting Reply: Item #4886889 from W.ST.ONGE on 95/12/19 at 06:49 Wes, Sure, post away. Merry Christmas! Terry (went riding today -- 32 degrees and sunny) **************************** 'Tis the season for singing, and we all know how much motorcyclists like to sing, right? Here's a two-wheeled version of an inane seasonal classic: "The Twelve Days Of Christmas". This song has the virtue of repetition (so slow learners can pick it up as it goes), short lines of lyric, no rhymes, and a ridiculous concept -- perfect for a beer-swilling biker sing-along. The drunkest among you can provide the counterpoint to each new line. All together now... On the first day of Christmas, my true love gave to me, The keys to a Kaw-a-sak-iiiiiiiiii! -- Just the keys? On the second day of Christmas, my true love gave to me, Two pair of gloves, -- Deerskin! All right! And the keys to a Kaw-a-sak-iiiiiiiiii. On the third day of Christmas, my true love gave to me, Three wrench ends, -- Say what? Oh yeah, Two pair of gloves, for those trick And the keys to a Kaw-a-sak-iiiiiiiiii! convertible wrenches! On the fourth day of Christmas, my true love gave to me, Four riding suits, -- Aerostich! Right on! Three wrench ends, Zip me up in back? Two pair of gloves, And the keys to a Kaw-a-sak-iiiiiiiiii! On the fifth day of Christmas, my true love gave to me, Five Golden Wings, -- Whoa! Honda-bagos! Four riding suits, There goes my garage Three wrench ends, space! Two pair of gloves, And the keys to a Kaw-a-sak-iiiiiiiiii! On the sixth day of Christmas, my true love gave to me, Six Scooters scooting, -- One in the trunk of Five Golden Wings, each 'Wing, and a Four riding suits, spare! Three wrench ends, Two pair of gloves, And the keys to a Kaw-a-sak-iiiiiiiiii! On the seventh day of Christmas, my true love gave to me, Seven Beemers beaming, -- The Boxer lives! Six Scooters scooting, I'll keep one for a Five Golden Wings, paint shaker and Four riding suits, store the rest at Three wrench ends, Bill's! Two pair of gloves, And the keys to a Kaw-a-sak-iiiiiiiiii! On the eighth day of Christmas, my true love gave to me, Eight Harleys rumbling, -- Major macho! The Seven Beemers beaming, neighbors are gonna Six Scooters scooting, die! Is that the Five Golden Wings, whole west-coast Four riding suits, allotment? Three wrench ends, Two pair of gloves, And the keys to a Kaw-a-sak-iiiiiiiiii! On the ninth day of Christmas, my true love gave to me, Nine Ninjas racing, -- Wow! How fun! How Eight Harleys rumbling, noisy! The neighbors Seven Beemers beaming, are gonna kill me! Six Scooters scooting, Five Golden Wings, Four riding suits, Three wrench ends, Two pair of gloves, And the keys to a Kaw-a-sak-iiiiiiiiii! On the tenth day of Christmas, my true love gave to me, Ten Guzzis rolling, -- Viva Italiano! Nine Ninjas racing, Mondo carburretore! Eight Harleys rumbling, Mama mia! Seven Beemers beaming, Six Scooters scooting, Five Golden Wings, Four riding suits, Three wrench ends, Two pair of gloves, And the keys to a Kaw-a-sak-iiiiiiiiii! On the eleventh day of Christmas, my true love gave to me, Eleven Hondas humming, -- Electric Hondas? The Ten Guzzis rolling, environmentalists Nine Ninjas racing, have gone too far! Eight Harleys rumbling, Seven Beemers beaming, Six Scooters scooting, Five Golden Wings, Four riding suits, Three wrench ends, Two pair of gloves, And the keys to a Kaw-a-sak-iiiiiiiiii! On the twelfth day of Christmas, my true love gave to me, Twelve Triumphs touring, -- Wait a minute! Does Eleven Hondas humming, that say LUCAS? I'm Ten Guzzis rolling, not touring on that! Nine Ninjas racing, Eight Harleys rumbling, Seven Beemers beaming, Six Scooters scooting, Five Golden Wings, Four riding suits, Three wrench ends, Two pair of gloves, And the keys to a Kaw-a-sak-iiiiiiiiii! ============================================================ Wadda-ya mean I gotta have a dealers license for all this stuff? Taxes? Permits? Environmental restrictions? ... Merry Christmas everyone! *********************************************************** forwarded by : Wes St.Onge RETREADNY@aol.com ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 06:51:45 -0500 From: Clelaw@aol.com To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Subject: List Takeoff I wish to be taken off the list. ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 10:00:33 -0600 To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Subject: Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 08:00:24 -0800 From: Gaye Grabill Over the next few months I may be moving from Portland, OR to Austin, TX. One concern I have regards the riding conditions out there. Anyone from the area care to comment? Specificaly how far do I have to go to get to twisties? What sort of elevations are there within a couple of hours driving? Any information would be appreciated! -gaye -- Gaye Grabill gaye@percy.rain.com ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 10:26 -0800 From: ESTES@polar.eielson.af.mil (CORY) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Subject: RE: Merry Christmas! I add my greetings to those of Juan and Roger. Best wishes and warmest greetings to all of you! Juan, you're a RAT! Folks, this guy is jumping ship (from an Alaskan winter) just to get some warmth and sunshine! WIMP! (Please, please, take me, too!) Roger, you've got one up on me. My "two wheeler (snow blower)" hasn't even been started yet this year! The local paper is calling it a "snow drought." Such is life. By this time last year we had somewhere near 25". Right now we don't even have 6"! Ho, ho, ho and all that rot. Cory From owner-pc800 Wed Dec 20 15:44:02 1995 ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Subject: Re: Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 08:00:24 -0800 From: kent@eaanu.nde.swri.edu (Kent Polk) Date: Wed, 20 Dec 95 15:24:10 CST > Over the next few months I may be moving from Portland, OR to > Austin, TX. One concern I have regards the riding conditions out > there. Anyone from the area care to comment? Specificaly how far I grew up in Austin and live 100 miles southwest of it. You can ride year-round. You can almost pack away that rain-suit that you use so much up there in Portland :^). Though Austin drivers are pretty much the stupidest drivers in the state, IMHO. Kinda like white-tailed deer: you have no idea what they will do and neither do they. Probably has something to do with all the lawyers and politicians that live there... > do I have to go to get to twisties? Depends on what side of town you live on. Can be right at your doorstep. > What sort of elevations are > there within a couple of hours driving? Elevations??? As in Mountains??? About 500 miles west. Austin *is* in Texas, you know. :^) On the other hand, Austin is right on the edge of the Hill Country, which offers some pretty decent rolling hills with most of the best riding avaliable in Texas, so you're picking a pretty good spot for riding in Texas. Of course, here in San Antonio, I'm closer to the best roads. :^) Kent Polk: kent@eaanu.nde.swri.edu (DoF #) : Official DoF Squid Motto: "Ride Hard/Crash Gently" ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 22:37:18 -0400 To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu From: ey@forum.swarthmore.edu (E.Y.Murphey) Subject: winter break with all our direction to 'pc' - politically correct say what does that mean ??? is the PC 800 a politically corect mode of transport well any way...it's difficult to know all the times that the winter solistice has played out itself out without out celebration through paegan times (and now even Paegan times... would a Paegan even consider riding a PC 800? and then made sacred by Islam, Hinduism Christianity, (in a variety of forms in different cultures), Jewish, and you name your sacred group and it can be assured that this planetary passing plays a part in their thoughts so to the brothers and sisters, to the mother and fathers, to all us children of the universe the best for this longest day of light, and its counterpart, the longest day of darkness happening simultaneously bless yourself and your neighbor for their insignificance in the universe then take another breathe Thanks for all we have! especially all the technology it makes us feel so superior? thanks for the web pagers, the help on the line, the humor from Juan the expertise of Kent, the support of Waldo and all the other that help our constellation of riders do it a little better each day in all ways, always ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| E.Y. MurphEY EYonline@aol.com OR ey@forum.swarthmore.edu voice: 610-259-9861 (h) 610-853-5900 x3978 fax: 610-789-1445 '93 PC-800 DoD# 8119 AMA#3425444 as lifer HSTA#6485 Limits set the conditions of survival... within everything is the seed of its apparent contradiction... so survival conditions the limits set. Maybe a metaphor would help? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| 20 Dec 1995 20:03:02 -0700 (PDT) ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 19:59:42 -0700 From: _spain@edsug.com (Harrison Spain) Subject: Re: Gas Smell To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu >I left my gas cap at a gas station way across the state. $35 later I >now leave the gas cap in the fuel "pocket" when filling up. No more >lost caps. \"/ My cap is 'attached' by a breather hose which forces me to either disconnect the hose from the gas cap (I hate to do that) or just tuck the gas cap sideways out of the way while filling the tank. Did you disconnect the hose or does your PC not have this arraingement? Harrison ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** To: pc800@hpc.uh.edu Cc: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Subject: Re: Gas Smell Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 22:50:29 -0600 From: Jason L Tibbitts III >>>>> "HS" == Harrison Spain <_spain@edsug.com> writes: HS> My cap is 'attached' by a breather hose which forces me to either HS> disconnect the hose from the gas cap (I hate to do that) or just tuck HS> the gas cap sideways out of the way while filling the tank. I've never seen such a thing. A quick check shows EDS/Unigraphics (edsug.com) to be in California. Perhaps this is another kali weirdness? - J< 20 Dec 1995 21:55:45 -0700 (PDT) ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Wed, 20 Dec 1995 21:52:25 -0700 From: _spain@edsug.com (Harrison Spain) Subject: Re: Gas Smell To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu >>>>>> "HS" == Harrison Spain <_spain@edsug.com> writes: > >HS> My cap is 'attached' by a breather hose which forces me to either >HS> disconnect the hose from the gas cap (I hate to do that) or just tuck >HS> the gas cap sideways out of the way while filling the tank. > >I've never seen such a thing. A quick check shows EDS/Unigraphics >(edsug.com) to be in California. Perhaps this is another kali weirdness? > > - J< Ah! I bet you are right! This must be part of the special smog control system required for California :-). Harrison ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 01:15:00 -0500 From: HTBIII@aol.com To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Subject: Re: Tire recommendations I remember some message traffic back in the summer/fall about tire preferences, but I seem to have deleted all those messages except the ones noticing premature wear on ML2s. Well, now I too have premature wear on my ML2s (about 9000 miles). What should I replace them with? I did notice a substantial improvement in handling when I replaced the stock shoes with the Metzelers, but is there a compromise solution that will give me a little bit longer life? Also, has the Metzeler availability problem been solved yet? My dealer wasn't sure and is checking with a distributor on availability. Just in case, please recommend a second choice as well. In order to keep traffic to a minimum on the list, I will post a summary of the recommendations ifeveryone sends me impressions and recommendations via direct e-mal. The sooner, the better - I have to replace mine next week or the week after. Thanks. Tom Byron htbiii@aol.com ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 03:27:42 -0500 From: JTSMCRIDER@aol.com To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Subject: Re: Merry Christmas! Merry Christmas to you, Juan, and to all the other folks on this list. Does Santa come to Alaska first, or does he/she (well, Santa is a feminine title, is it not?) wait 'til the leg home? Actually, we've already had Christmas here due to some family scheduling difficulties on the 25th. It was a great one; lot's of neat toys and goodies. I'm looking forward to new year's day; that's when the PC's will see their next outing. Diane and I have a long-standing tradition of starting each new year with a motorcycle ride. Hopefully, the weather here in Tennessee will be kind enough to keep the slick stuff off the roads. Take care, everyone, and have a great season (holiday and riding). JT ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: 21 Dec 95 09:29:42 EST From: "Dana L. Sawyer" <71430.340@compuserve.com> To: HondaPacificCoastOwners Cc: HSTA List , Ron Maudlin <74726.2016@compuserve.com>, Brad Mobley <76241.1063@compuserve.com>, Mike Morris <76401.1325@compuserve.com>, "Samuel \"Todd\" Nunnally" <72064.2771@compuserve.com>, "Donald L. \"Moose\" Parish" <73523.3636@compuserve.com>, Elbert Silbaugh <71203.2774@compuserve.com>, Lynn Weas <75407.237@compuserve.com> Subject: Check your Pentium! How do you know if the Pentium processor in your computer is not so hot at math? Give it this problem: 4195835 - (44195835/3145727 x 3145727). The answer is zero, but the bum Pentium processor will give you an answer of 256. If your Pentium processor fails this test, contact the company for a replacement. DANA SAWYER 21 Dec 1995 09:15:42 -0600 (CST) ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 09:14:11 -0600 (CST) From: kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu (Kent Polk) Subject: Re: Tire recommendations (at Thu, 21 Dec 1995 01:15:00 -0500) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Hi HTBIII (HTBIII), in <951220231100_20348928@mail02.mail.aol.com> on Dec 21 you wrote: > I remember some message traffic back in the summer/fall about tire > preferences, but I seem to have deleted all those messages except the ones > noticing premature wear on ML2s. Well, now I too have premature wear on my > ML2s (about 9000 miles). What should I replace them with? I did notice a With ML2's, unless tire mileage is more important to you than good handling/traction. I've never owned a sport bike nor a strictly touring bike, but ~9000 miles is about what I've always gotten out of a decent rear tire on the heavier of my 13 street bikes. Metzeler did change the ML2 to a harder compound because a lot of people complained (damn them!). > substantial improvement in handling when I replaced the stock shoes with the > Metzelers, but is there a compromise solution that will give me a little bit > longer life? Pretty much no. All the other tires which fit the rear rim stick and handle like the OEM tires, which means 'like cr*p'. > In order to keep traffic to a minimum on the list, I will post a summary of We've been over this a number of times, so I doubt there's a need to summarize, but I guess I will. Use the ML2 for the rear. It's the only decent rear tire that fits the PC. Use the ML2 front for touring or gentle riding. Use the Bridgestone Battlaxe street compound front if you're going to push it. Kent Polk: Southwest Research Institute Internet : kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 11:24:56 -0500 From: JTSMCRIDER@aol.com To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Subject: Re: Check your Pentium! Hey Dana, when I do the math you suggest, I get -40,000,000. Maybe you've got an extra digit or a missing digit in the problem. :) JT ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: 21 Dec 95 15:21:32 EST From: Steve Schibuola <73414.466@compuserve.com> To: PC800 List Subject: Thanks I joined the list about two weeks ago, and have just emerged from an archaeological expedition into the archives. I just want to say THANKS to all of you who have contributed to this great body of PC knowledge. Having gone through years-long learning-curves with my previous two bikes, I am really grateful for all the info. Thanks to you, I now: - know which Rifle windshield to order for my height (5'10") and riding position (upright) - the 22" or +4 (it arrived yesterday - I will install it this weekend and post my impressions) -know that the SAENG Stealth Edging (1-800-TOURING - let it ring!) is a further option if wind noise is still a problem -know with certainty what I suspected - the stock Dunlop K-555's are scary on anything but the smoothest, driest pavement - even a LITTLE gravel in a curve upsets the rear ... Metz's going on real soon! (thanks, Kent!) -know about Novus Plastic Cleaner and SAENG's Can-Do spray - my PC will always be clean! -know what oil to use (Mobil 1 Synthetic - thanks, Kent!) and where I can find a good oil filter wrench (NAPA #3253 or Channelock #440's) -know that installing a tank-bag is not nearly as impossible as I first thought it would be (thanks, Kent!) -know where I can get a luggage rack and top-box, if I (or, more likely, my girlfriend) ever exceed the PC's generous cargo capacity - Givi, from Capital Cycle in Ashburn VA, 800-642-5100 -know that the Corbin seat and/or the Utopia driver's backrest are options if I/we ever exceed the stock saddle's comfort zone, but I'm going to try the bicycle underwear idea first (thanks, Kent!) -know how to adjust my fuel sending unit to get a more realistic fuel level reading -know which cruise-control to install (the Vista Cruise - it doesn't offer the features of the BMW Wrist-Rest, but seems easier to install, is definitely cheaper, and should fit my needs) -have won over my girlfriend to the PC (I inadvertently spoiled her by renting a GoldWing a few months ago - bad move!) by installing the "custom-made" Cobbs Vanity Mirror in the trunk, and attaching the Hondaline backrest. -know what suspension mods to eventually make - Works Performance dual-rate rear shocks and progressive-rate front fork springs with 15wt fork oil (thanks, Kent!), although I don't think I'll be scraping my pegs/guards/center-stand etc. anytime soon. Also, thanks to you, I am now paranoid about: -my K555's in the rain (in Southern California, not usually a problem) -oil seepage (not a problem ...yet!) -gas smell (haven't noticed it yet - 89 PC with 5000 miles - I bought it in November with 4600 miles - but maybe the California emissions mods prevent [or hide] the problem) - the Slinky Trunk (tm) effect I don't mind the paranoia, though - while ignorance may be bliss, on a motorcycle, it's also downright dangerous! Again, not to be tedious, but my heartfelt thanks to you all! I hope I'll be able to repay you in kind. ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: 21 Dec 95 15:32:59 EST From: "Dana L. Sawyer" <71430.340@compuserve.com> To: HondaPacificCoastOwners Cc: HSTA List , Ron Maudlin <74726.2016@compuserve.com>, Brad Mobley <76241.1063@compuserve.com>, Mike Morris <76401.1325@compuserve.com>, "Samuel \"Todd\" Nunnally" <72064.2771@compuserve.com>, "Donald L. \"Moose\" Parish" <73523.3636@compuserve.com>, Elbert Silbaugh <71203.2774@compuserve.com>, Lynn Weas <75407.237@compuserve.com> Subject: Check your Pentium! ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: "Dana L. Sawyer", INTERNET:71430.340@compuserve.com TO: HondaPacificCoastOwners, INTERNET:PC800@SINA.HPC.UH.EDU CC: HSTA List, INTERNET:HSTA@LISTPROC/BGSU.EDU Ron Maudlin, 74726,2016 Brad Mobley, 76241,1063 Mike Morris, 76401,1325 "Samuel \"Todd\" Nunnally", 72064,2771 "Donald L. \"Moose\" Parish", 73523,3636 Elbert Silbaugh, 71203,2774 Lynn Weas, 75407,237 DATE: 12/21/95 9:46 AM RE: PC800: Check your Pentium! arl-img-1.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) by Post-Office.UH.EDU (PMDF V5.0-5 #8380) 21 Dec 1995 08:34:32 -0600 (CST) 21 Dec 1995 08:33:37 -0600 21 Dec 1995 09:32:03 -0500 ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 09:29:42 -0500 (EST) From: "Dana L. Sawyer" <71430.340@compuserve.com> Subject: Check your Pentium! To: HondaPacificCoastOwners Cc: HSTA List , Ron Maudlin <74726.2016@compuserve.com>, Brad Mobley <76241.1063@compuserve.com>, Mike Morris <76401.1325@compuserve.com>, "Samuel \"Todd\" Nunnally" <72064.2771@compuserve.com>, "Donald L. \"Moose\" Parish" <73523.3636@compuserve.com>, Elbert Silbaugh <71203.2774@compuserve.com>, Lynn Weas <75407.237@compuserve.com> Reply-to: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu CORRECTION - the previous message contained an unintneional error! How do you know if the Pentium processor in your computer is not so hot at math? Give it this problem: 4195835 - (4195835/3145727 x 3145727). The answer is zero, but the bum Pentium processor will give you an answer of 256. If your Pentium processor fails this test, contact the company for a replacement. DANA SAWYER ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: 21 Dec 95 15:33:38 EST From: "Dana L. Sawyer" <71430.340@compuserve.com> To: HondaPacificCoastOwners Subject: Re: Tire recommendations ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: Kent Polk, INTERNET:kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu TO: (unknown), INTERNET:PC800@SINA.HPC.UH.EDU DATE: 12/21/95 10:28 AM RE: Re: PC800: Tire recommendations dub-img-5.compuserve.com (8.6.10/5.950515) by Post-Office.UH.EDU (PMDF V5.0-5 #8380) 21 Dec 1995 09:16:06 -0600 (CST) 21 Dec 1995 09:15:44 -0600 21 Dec 1995 09:15:42 -0600 21 Dec 1995 09:15:42 -0600 (CST) ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 09:14:11 -0600 (CST) From: kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu (Kent Polk) Subject: Re: Tire recommendations (at Thu, 21 Dec 1995 01:15:00 -0500) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Reply-to: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Hi HTBIII (HTBIII), in <951220231100_20348928@mail02.mail.aol.com> on Dec 21 you wrote: > I remember some message traffic back in the summer/fall about tire > preferences, but I seem to have deleted all those messages except the ones > noticing premature wear on ML2s. Well, now I too have premature wear on my > ML2s (about 9000 miles). What should I replace them with? I did notice a With ML2's, unless tire mileage is more important to you than good handling/traction. I've never owned a sport bike nor a strictly touring bike, but ~9000 miles is about what I've always gotten out of a decent rear tire on the heavier of my 13 street bikes. Metzeler did change the ML2 to a harder compound because a lot of people complained (damn them!). > substantial improvement in handling when I replaced the stock shoes with the > Metzelers, but is there a compromise solution that will give me a little bit > longer life? Pretty much no. All the other tires which fit the rear rim stick and handle like the OEM tires, which means 'like cr*p'. > In order to keep traffic to a minimum on the list, I will post a summary of We've been over this a number of times, so I doubt there's a need to summarize, but I guess I will. Use the ML2 for the rear. It's the only decent rear tire that fits the PC. Use the ML2 front for touring or gentle riding. Use the Bridgestone Battlaxe street compound front if you're going to push it. Kent Polk: Southwest Research Institute Internet : kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu I have 61,000 miles on my '90 Pacific Coast. The two sets of tires that I have used include the Dunlop K-177s and the Metzeler ML-2s. I have gotten about 15,000 miles from both. The Dunlops cost a bit less, but I don't know that this is a determining factor. I paid about $280 for installation, balance,etc. of the Dunlops. The Metzelers would have cost about $315 (this is at a Honda dealer.).I have Dunlops on at the moment. Being a non-aggressive rider, I can't say a lot about the performance at maximum lean angle or velocity, but I have gotten excellent service from both. DANA SAWYER "Life is short...I think I'll' go riding!" ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: Bryce Ulrich To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Date: Fri, 22 Dec 95 11:06:18 TZ Subject: MC: Early Christmas Present Oh what a beatiful morning! The sun's out, the mountains are white, the air has a crisp chill -- what a great day for a ride. My Honda PC800 just can't wait to roll-on the throttle. Or is that me who couldn't wait? Well it was just another morning commute dodging cagers down I-405 when what to my amazement was a State Trooper 100 yards back in the mirror. Oh my, I'm doing 75! Downshifted to 4th and scrubbed off the speed fast and didn't tap the brakes once. Lights come on. "Damn", I thought to myself, "not as pretty in the daytime." He was patient as I made my way for a safe shoulder 4 lanes and a bridge away. He grabbed his hat but no notepad. "Is this my lucky day?. Oh I'll bet he couldn't get a fix on my 'cause I probably suprised him pulling into his lane like that. Better play cool." I shut off the bike and put the kickstand down. He asked for my registration and license and I obliged 'cept I had to get off the bike and into the trunk to fetch the registration. He asked if I was still living in Kirkland and I nodded my head. He said, and I quote: "You need to slow down out there. You came like a bat out of hell from nowhere. Wow..... Have a good holiday." I said thanks and off he went. -bryceu (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Fri, 22 Dec 1995 14:42:58 -0800 ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 14:40:28 -0800 From: Steve Gross To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Subject: Re: MC: Early Christmas Present Bryce Ulrich wrote: > "You need to slow down out there. You came like a bat out of hell from > nowhere. Wow..... Have a good holiday." > > I said thanks and off he went.Who says there isn't a Santa Claus? Now, Bryce, do ya think Santa'll bring you that sculpted luggage bag that wraps around the backrest that you wanted???? Naughty, nice, it's all relative! -- Steve Gross "This _must_ be a test... If it were my real life, they'd've given me better instructions, right?" ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Fri, 22 Dec 1995 22:40:24 -0400 To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu From: ey@forum.swarthmore.edu (E.Y.Murphey) Subject: Re: MC: Early Christmas Present >"You need to slow down out there. You came like a bat out of hell from nowhere. Wow..... Have a good holiday." > I said thanks and off he went. -bryceu ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ what a GREAT story...my snow frozen home radiated with a great smiling YEAH! The PA state is in white and ice no road is safe yet, but as soon as it is I too may hear ""You need to slow down out there. You came like a bat out of hell from nowhere. Wow..... Have a good holiday." Thanks BRYCEU ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| E.Y. MurphEY EYonline@aol.com OR ey@forum.swarthmore.edu voice: 610-259-9861 (h) 610-853-5900 x3978 fax: 610-789-1445 '93 PC-800 DoD# 8119 AMA#3425444 as lifer HSTA#6485 Limits set the conditions of survival... within everything is the seed of its apparent contradiction... so survival conditions the limits set. Maybe a metaphor would help? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: 23 Dec 95 00:19:19 EST From: "Dana L. Sawyer" <71430.340@compuserve.com> To: HondaPacificCoastOwners Cc: HSTA List Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown (Name server: listproc/bgsu.edu: host not found) ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: Mail Delivery Subsystem, INTERNET:MAILER-DAEMON@compuserve.com TO: Dana L. Sawyer, 71430,340 DATE: 12/21/95 9:26 AM RE: Returned mail: Host unknown (Name server: listproc/bgsu.edu: host not found) (8.6.10/5.950515) ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 09:25:19 -0500 From: Mail Delivery Subsystem Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown (Name server: listproc/bgsu.edu: host not found) To: 71430.340@compuserve.com The original message was received at Thu, 21 Dec 1995 09:25:18 -0500 from mailgate@localhost ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- hsta@listproc/bgsu.edu (unrecoverable error) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 550 hsta@listproc/bgsu.edu... Host unknown (Name server: listproc/bgsu.edu: host not found) ----- Original message follows ----- ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: 21 Dec 95 09:24:52 EST From: "Dana L. Sawyer" <71430.340@compuserve.com> To: HSTA List Subject: Ventura Bike Pack HSTA member Rob Pemble sells these packs, and probably has some in stock. I have seen them on several bikes, and they seem to work great! Rob can be reached at POB 569, Dillsboro NC 28725-0569, tel. 704/586-5074. He also sells the Ventura headlight covers, Saeng windscren edging, winglets and other goodies. I've known Rob for several years, and can vouch for the fact that he's a nice guy! He travels to a number of large motorcycle rallies to sell his wares. Tell him that the Fossil recommended him to you! DANA SAWYER ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 12:52:18 -0500 From: Dentman711@aol.com To: pc800@hpc.uh.edu Subject: Merry X-Mass to all Ho Ho Ho You know it will never snow Atleast here in Bama. ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Sat, 23 Dec 1995 18:21:56 -1000 To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu From: reap@pixi.com (Ronald E. Pacholec) Subject: Re: Mele Kalikimaka!! Merry Christmas and a Fantastic New Year to All!!! Even though it's beautiful, it sure doesn't feel like Christmas! I really do miss white Christmas in New England. I was thinking about lights on a cocoanut tree, but it's just not the same. :-( :-( We're in the midst of a heat wave setting records of about 88 deg instead of the normal 82 deg. But unlike Bama, it does snow up on Mauna Kea (14,000 ft.). The surf's up, some days to 18-20 ft. The waves come down from storms up in the North Pacific and Alaska - thanks Juan. Anyway, I hope you guys enjoy the snow, fireplaces, skiing, etc. and have a REALLY TERRIFIC NEW YEAR. Mele Kalikimaka, me ka Hauole Makahiki Hou !! Aloha, Ron P.S. I need a really loud horn for my bike to scare away all the tourists. They're a dangerous bunch. Any suggestions? Thanks ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu (Kent Polk) Subject: Re: Mele Kalikimaka!! (from reap@pixi.com (Ronald E. Pacholec)) (at Sat, 23 Dec 1995 18:21:56 -1000) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Date: Sun, 24 Dec 1995 10:19:28 CST Hi Ronald (Ronald E. Pacholec), in on Dec 23 you wrote: > P.S. I need a really loud horn for my bike to scare away all the tourists. > They're a dangerous bunch. Any suggestions? Thanks Yep. Check out my writeup on installing Fiamm Airhorns in the archives. Cheap & loud. Pictures at the PC home page. Add a couple of more side- mounted ones like I did for extra 'protection'. Kent Polk: Southwest Research Institute Internet : kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu 24 Dec 1995 10:30:39 -0600 (CST) ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Sun, 24 Dec 1995 10:28:53 -0600 (CST) From: kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu (Kent Polk) Subject: Re: MC: Early Christmas Present (from Bryce Ulrich ) (at Fri, 22 Dec 1995 11:06:18 +0000 (TZ)) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Hi Bryce (Bryce Ulrich), in <199512221910.LAA19598@imail1.microsoft.com> on Dec 22 you wrote: > "You need to slow down out there. You came like a bat out of hell from > nowhere. Wow..... Have a good holiday." That means he couldn't get a radar 'lock' on you. I brought this subject up a long time ago. Don't remember the response, but I can't remember how many times I've gone through radar traps, seeing the cop look at me, look at his radar gun, and then back, with a confused look on his face. I suspect that figerglass wrap around the engine cuts out most radar reflection. Kent Polk: Southwest Research Institute Internet : kent@eaenki.nde.swri.edu ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: 24 Dec 95 15:02:17 EST From: Steve Schibuola <73414.466@compuserve.com> To: PC800 Mailing List Subject: Rifle +4 Fairing Hi, all! Two days ago I installed a Rifle +4 (22", 27" installed) fairing on my 89 PC, which formerly had the stock low shield. I know the archives are FULL of info on Rifles and tall Hondalines, but what the heck, here's some more to add. Installation was a snap, even for a mechanical klutz like me. Total time was maybe two hours, at a pretty leisurely pace, and half of it (because I couldn't wait for morning) in the dark! No unusual tools needed; you could even install it using the Honda toolkit, if you're masochistic enough to use it in anything but an on-the-road emergency. Fit and finish are excellent - however, one minor note of aesthetic caution - compared to the stock shield, the Rifle shield is more obviously a "bolt-on". If the seamless "where-are-the-bolts?" design principles of the PC appeal to you (as they do to me), you may be somewhat disconcerted by the windshield bolts which are (gasp!) completely *VISIBLE*!! Worse yet, they are located in a "gap" above the PC dash which just cries out for a nice piece of concealing plastic trim - ie. compared to the rest of the cockpit, it looks naked. I may get around to fitting a trim-piece - however, I'll probably get used to the look in time, especially since I don't tend to spend too much time focussing on that area while riding. From the front, the fit is seamless and looks fine, although the shield, being less swept-back and less tapered than the original, gives the bike a slightly more "tour-ey" (word?) and less sporty look. Does it work? Yes! Even too well - I mean, you want to feel SOME wind on your face, or else you might as well be in a cage, IMHO. Noise and turbulence are almost completely eliminated, although there is some back-pressure/turbulence at 75 mph+. However, it turns out that the 22" shield is too high for me. I'm 5'9" and sit upright (ie. I don't usually lean forward too much), but I guess I slouch more than my mom would approve of - the result is that I look through the top 2-3 inches of the shield, which I don't care for. Basically, I want enough wind protection to ride comfortably with my faceshield up (I wear glasses) at all but freeway speeds (which around here seem to be at least 70mph and rising, due to the upcoming speed limit revisions), and I want to look over the shield. I test-rode the shield yesterday, a very blustery day, and found that I could rise up 2-3 inches without entering the turbulence - so I'm going to exchange the 22" for a 20". Hope this info is useful for the (few) of you who haven't replaced your stock shields, and are contemplating doing so. 24 Dec 1995 16:12:56 -0700 (PDT) ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Sun, 24 Dec 1995 16:09:36 -0700 From: _spain@edsug.com (Harrison Spain) Subject: Re: Rifle +4 Fairing To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu >Hi, all! Two days ago I installed a Rifle +4 (22", 27" installed) fairing on my >89 PC, which formerly had the stock low shield. I know the archives are FULL of >info on Rifles and tall Hondalines, but what the heck, here's some more to add. I'm very curious about what one of these looks like (looking forward to our ride in a couple of weeks so I can see it in person). I have the tall Honda screen and the wind (even with the SAENG edging) is still a bit annoying. I'd love to try out the Rifel but am a bit put off by the price! I suspect the +4 is the right size for me (I'm, 6' 4"). I was just getting ready to tell you *not* to send it back and make and offer to you when you said you would be exchanging it ;-). Harrison | Harrison M. Spain | Voice: (714) 952-6114 | | Systems Support Manager | Fax: (714) 952-5371 | | EDS Unigraphics | Internet: _spain@ug.eds.com | | Cypress, CA 90630 | UUCP: ...uunet!ug!_spain | ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Mon, 25 Dec 1995 18:01:07 -0700 From: "Robert L. Tuttle" To: pc800@hpc.uh.edu Subject: New Member Greetings fellow PC800 riders... My name is Robert Tuttle and I live in San Rafael, CA. I bought my brand new 1990 Honda PC in 1992. It's big, It's red and it's beutiful. I'd love to hear from you and if possible get together for a ride. Bob nurse@hooked.net ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Tue, 26 Dec 1995 22:38:28 -0500 From: RayGator@aol.com To: pc800@hpc.uh.edu Subject: PC800 new member Ray Christian Plantation, FL RayGator@aol.com PC800 1994 Bought used (640 miles) ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 11:16:28 -0400 To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu From: ey@forum.swarthmore.edu (E.Y.Murphey) Subject: Re: PC800 new member >Ray Christian >Plantation, FL >RayGator@aol.com >PC800 1994 >Bought used (640 miles) welcome and happy new year from the snowing north ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| E.Y. MurphEY EYonline@aol.com OR ey@forum.swarthmore.edu voice: 610-259-9861 (h) 610-853-5900 x3978 fax: 610-789-1445 '93 PC-800 DoD# 8119 AMA#3425444 as lifer HSTA#6485 Limits set the conditions of survival... within everything is the seed of its apparent contradiction... so survival conditions the limits set. Maybe a metaphor would help? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~| 27 Dec 1995 10:00:32 -0600 (CST) id KAA04342 for pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu; Wed, 27 Dec 1995 10:59:12 -0500 ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 10:59:12 -0500 From: JTSMCRIDER@aol.com Subject: Re: MC: Early Christmas Present To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Hi Kent, In a message dated 95-12-24 11:34:15 EST, you write: >That means he couldn't get a radar 'lock' on you. I brought this subject >up a long time ago. Don't remember the response, but I can't remember >how many times I've gone through radar traps, seeing the cop look at me, >look at his radar gun, and then back, with a confused look on his face. >I suspect that figerglass wrap around the engine cuts out most radar >reflection. I wish that were my experience. Sadly, I've been nailed twice on my PC in the past few years, once in New Mexico and just last month here in Tennessee. Both were head-on passes with a rolling cruiser on a remote,rural highway. The most recent hit was from a Ka-band, instant-on. So, PCs are far from invisible to RADAR. I'm thinking of checking out a jammer/scrambler. Has anybody experience with such things? JT ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 08:59 -0800 From: ESTES@polar.eielson.af.mil (CORY) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Subject: RE: PC800 Stealth JT wrote: >I wish that were my experience. Sadly, I've been nailed twice on my PC in >the past few years, once in New Mexico and just last month here in Tennessee. >Both were head-on passes with a rolling cruiser on a remote,rural highway. >The most recent hit was from a Ka-band, instant-on. So, PCs are far from >invisible to RADAR. I'm thinking of checking out a jammer/scrambler. Has >anybody experience with such things? Somebody once told me that the biggest head-on radar reflector on the PC is the headlight. Don't know if that's true, but makes sense, I guess. I have a jammer/scrambler that I just bought. Haven't really had a chance put it to the test yet. I've gotten really mixed reviews from different sources. The "active" manufacturers claim wonders for themselves and total uselessness for the "passive" equipment. The "passive" camp claims they are the true savior. Hard to tell. Mine is a passive unit from Rocky Mountain Radar. I figure that if it works at all, that's good, combined w/ the fairly small signature of a largely plastic-covered motorcycle, that could be enough time, even a couple of seconds, to roll off and save some $. We'll see. Cory From owner-pc800 Wed Dec 27 14:05:13 1995 ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Wed, 27 Dec 95 20:01:45 UT From: "Charter Member" To: "PC800 Mailing List" Subject: Anyone Live in S. Florida? I was just wondering? Am I the only one on this list that lives in Florida? I keep reading about all the cold weather preparations you folks have to go through to ride. You all can laugh, but it's about 50 degrees now in West Palm Beach where I live, and I think it's too cold for riding today. Maybe it will be warmer tomorrow. I have lived here all my life so I guess my blood is pretty thin. I did ride back once from Daytona on another bike I owned when it was about 30 degrees. The bike had no fairing and I thought I was going to freeze to death. My point is I sure admire you folks. If there are any other PC-800 riders in my neck of the woods let me know, and maybe we can go for a nice WARM ride one day.. I never see a PC-800 on the streets down here. BetaTester@msn.com 1995 PC-800 only 1452 miles. (5.65c/IDA-1.4.4 for ); Wed, 27 Dec 1995 19:56:33 -0800 ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 19:56:33 -0800 To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu From: dkgross@halcyon.com (David Gross) Subject: Re: Anyone Live in S. Florida? beta.. I ride in 40 degree weather all the time here in seattle..the rain sucks, but, enough layering, and the pc breaks the wind just nicely...santa forgot to bring my Rifle shield :>( oh well ------------ Dave Gross & Baron George Von Helldog "It's gotta groove..." ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Wed, 27 Dec 1995 23:13:48 -0500 From: RayGator@aol.com To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Subject: Re: Anyone Live in S. Florida? Hi, I live in Plantation, FL and recently bought my PC800 ('94 with 640 miles) from Cycles of Palm Beach. I'm a new rider and enjoy trailoring the bike up to the Gainesville/Ocala area where there are many small country roads to ride on. Recently joined HSTA. Ray Christian ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: 28 Dec 95 01:05:23 EST From: Steve Schibuola <73414.466@compuserve.com> To: PC800 Mailing List Subject: PC Problems! A few days ago I posted my thanks to the group for the wonderful body of PC lore you have amassed in the archives. I've been hoping that I'd find something to contribute in return, and now believe that I have. Over the past few days, I've uncovered two CRITICAL DESIGN FLAWS in the PC. Actually, given the depth of experience in the group, I'm surprised that no one else has discovered or commented about them. First, and most serious - if you look carefully underneath your PC, you'll discover that it only has *TWO* wheels! =8-O. This obvious design flaw has significant implications for the PC's stability. I've attempted to get Honda to remedy the problem under warranty, but they refuse to admit that its a manufacturer's defect. While the lawsuit is in progress, I've managed to discover some temporary work-arounds to the problem: a) For some reason I can't fathom (I suspect it has something to do with magnetism), the bike seems to be fairly stable once it gets going in a straight line. On entering a curve, though, the bike has a disconcerting tendency to lean over! Don't be alarmed when this happens, as the bike will eventually right itself when you leave the turn. After some painful experiences, I've learned not to fight the lean - though I'll be relieved once I convince Honda to remedy this. b) At a stop light, I've learned its a good idea to put at least one foot on the ground - just be sure to put it back on the footpeg once you get going. c) I was stumped about how to park the bike without laying it on its side or leaning it against a tree, when I discovered some hinged metal struts on the underside. I suspect that the Honda engineers kludged these things on at the last minute when they discovered their design flaw, as they don't match anything else on the bike - this is my key piece of evidence in the lawsuit. Although I can't be sure because they were all moving too quickly, I believe other PC's I've seen may have this problem. The second problem is more of an annoyance than a danger, but it's still far below the quality I've come to expect from Honda. At about 180 miles, I noticed a marked degradation in the bike's performance. You can *temporarily* remedy this situation by pushing your PC to places called "service stations" (actually, there seem to be quite a few of these about, which is somewhat surprising given how rare the PC is). They can supply you with some kind of liquid performance enhancer, which goes into a tank via that nozzle-thingy just to the right of the trunk-release. This is a nuisance since: a) you can't use the tank for storing drinking fluids, as I originally intended to do; b) this "fix" only lasts about another 180 miles, at which time you have to repeat the process. This is a pretty shoddy setup from a company that otherwise makes some fine products. If anyone has experienced either of these two problems, please let me know - maybe we can file a class-action suit. I hope these observations begin to repay the debt I owe to all of you for your great info! ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 14:55:24 +0100 To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu From: looman@eldevs.nl (Hans Looman) Subject: Re: PC Problems! >c) I was stumped about how to park the bike without laying it on >its side or leaning it against a tree, when I discovered some >hinged metal struts on the underside. I suspect that the Honda >engineers kludged these things on at the last minute when they >discovered their design flaw, as they don't match anything else >on the bike - this is my key piece of evidence in the lawsuit. I also noticed some of these strange problems. If you park the bike you should try to find out in which direction it starts to fall. It seems like the forces all work their way towards Japan. Maybe in Japan the bike will always stay up on its two wheels. That might also explain the trouble we had opening the trunk with just one hand. By the way, can you explain why the PC has only ONE battery and still TWO wheels? Regards, and best wishes. Hans Looman. 28 Dec 1995 07:43:20 -0700 (PDT) ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 07:40:03 -0700 From: _spain@edsug.com (Harrison Spain) Subject: Re: New Member To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu >Greetings fellow PC800 riders... > >My name is Robert Tuttle and I live in San Rafael, CA. >I bought my brand new 1990 Honda PC in 1992. >It's big, It's red and it's beutiful. > >I'd love to hear from you and if possible get together for a >ride. > >Bob >nurse@hooked.net Welcome Bob! Is San Rafael in upper or lower CA? :-) So how many miles have you racked up in 3 years? | Harrison M. Spain | Voice: (714) 952-6114 | | Systems Support Manager | Fax: (714) 952-5371 | | EDS Unigraphics | Internet: _spain@ug.eds.com | | Cypress, CA 90630 | UUCP: ...uunet!ug!_spain | 28 Dec 1995 07:47:38 -0700 (PDT) ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 07:44:22 -0700 From: _spain@edsug.com (Harrison Spain) Subject: Re: Anyone Live in S. Florida? To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu >Hi, >I live in Plantation, FL and recently bought my PC800 ('94 with 640 miles) >from Cycles of Palm Beach. I'm a new rider and enjoy trailoring the bike up >to the Gainesville/Ocala area where there are many small country roads to >ride on. Recently joined HSTA. > >Ray Christian Welcome Ray! I think you will find this list *very* helpful. All the archives are also out there in case you want to scan through some of the older material that covers what kinds of tires to buy etc. :-) | Harrison M. Spain | Voice: (714) 952-6114 | | Systems Support Manager | Fax: (714) 952-5371 | | EDS Unigraphics | Internet: _spain@ug.eds.com | | Cypress, CA 90630 | UUCP: ...uunet!ug!_spain | 28 Dec 1995 07:49:58 -0700 (PDT) ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 07:46:41 -0700 From: _spain@edsug.com (Harrison Spain) Subject: Re: RE: PC800 Stealth To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu >Somebody once told me that the biggest head-on radar reflector on the PC >is the headlight. Don't know if that's true, but makes sense, I guess. >I have a jammer/scrambler that I just bought. Haven't really had a chance >put it to the test yet. I've gotten really mixed reviews from different >sources. The "active" manufacturers claim wonders for themselves and total >uselessness for the "passive" equipment. The "passive" camp claims they are >the true savior. Hard to tell. Mine is a passive unit from Rocky Mountain >Radar. I figure that if it works at all, that's good, combined w/ the fairly >small signature of a largely plastic-covered motorcycle, that could be enough >time, even a couple of seconds, to roll off and save some $. We'll see. > >Cory Perhaps you can install a chaff(?) system that throws out little bits of tin foil when you encounter a radar signal ;-). | Harrison M. Spain | Voice: (714) 952-6114 | | Systems Support Manager | Fax: (714) 952-5371 | | EDS Unigraphics | Internet: _spain@ug.eds.com | | Cypress, CA 90630 | UUCP: ...uunet!ug!_spain | ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 08:48:41 -0700 (MST) From: "Eric M. York" To: pc800@hpc.uh.edu Subject: intro, questions Greetings Earthlings, I bought a new '89 PC (33 mi.) in November of '91 (for $4.1k inc. two Hondaline/Nava helmets, cover.) It had sat in the showroom for two years and they REALLY wanted to get rid of it. It is my 7th bike, and one of two currently owned. Last year, I somehow managed to bend the frame without actually going down. (It's a long story ;) So, a couple weeks ago I finally got around to stripping the bike and taking it to Fast Track in Mesa, AZ to be straightened. Dave is a good guy to deal with, btw. My first question is this: The bike is going back together now, and I embarrassingly enough did not mark a small aluminum heat shield for replacement and I can't figure out where it goes! (blush) It is nearly rectangular, about 3 in. wide and 6-8 in. long with a triangular bend across one end. I know this isn't a very good desc, but if you have seen it, you will recognize this. :) Is there someone who has the experience and recall to place this for me? I can take a photo and send a gif to anyone who wants/needs more info. A much easier question: Since the 140/80-15 rear tire ain't too common, has anyone tried 140/90's? These are very common. There appears to be plenty of room; I am curious about any good/bad experiences doing this. Thanx in advance, Eric eryork@nmsu.edu ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: 28 Dec 95 10:49:44 EST From: "Dana L. Sawyer" <71430.340@compuserve.com> To: HondaPacificCoastOwners Cc: HSTA List Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown (Name server: listproc/bgsu.edu: host not found) ---------- Forwarded Message ---------- ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** From: Mail Delivery Subsystem, INTERNET:MAILER-DAEMON@compuserve.com TO: Dana L. Sawyer, 71430,340 DATE: 12/21/95 9:26 AM RE: Returned mail: Host unknown (Name server: listproc/bgsu.edu: host not found) (8.6.10/5.950515) ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Thu, 21 Dec 1995 09:25:19 -0500 From: Mail Delivery Subsystem Subject: Returned mail: Host unknown (Name server: listproc/bgsu.edu: host not found) To: 71430.340@compuserve.com The original message was received at Thu, 21 Dec 1995 09:25:18 -0500 from mailgate@localhost ----- The following addresses had delivery problems ----- hsta@listproc/bgsu.edu (unrecoverable error) ----- Transcript of session follows ----- 550 hsta@listproc/bgsu.edu... Host unknown (Name server: listproc/bgsu.edu: host not found) ----- Original message follows ----- ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: 21 Dec 95 09:24:52 EST From: "Dana L. Sawyer" <71430.340@compuserve.com> To: HSTA List Subject: Ventura Bike Pack HSTA member Rob Pemble sells these packs, and probably has some in stock. I have seen them on several bikes, and they seem to work great! Rob can be reached at POB 569, Dillsboro NC 28725-0569, tel. 704/586-5074. He also sells the Ventura headlight covers, Saeng windscren edging, winglets and other goodies. I've known Rob for several years, and can vouch for the fact that he's a nice guy! He travels to a number of large motorcycle rallies to sell his wares. Tell him that the Fossil recommended him to you! DANA SAWYER ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 08:51:42 -0700 (MST) From: "Eric M. York" To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Cc: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Subject: Re: Anyone Live in S. Florida? On Thu, 28 Dec 1995, Harrison Spain wrote: > > archives are also out there in case you want to scan through some of the > older material that covers what kinds of tires to buy etc. :-) Doh! Ignore my recent tire plea for now. ;) Eric ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Thu, 28 Dec 95 15:52:50 UT From: "Charter Member" To: "PC800 Mailing List" Subject: To: Ray Christian Hi, Ray, If your ever up in the Palm Beach area let me know. Maybe we can do a little A1A and see the sights. I think I saw the bike you purchase because I almost bought it. Was it the one with a few little scratches on the right side? The one I saw had the same mileage and everything. I like that dealer too. Take care, Richard BetaTester@msn.com ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 08:35:24 -0800 (PST) From: "Richard A. Hardy" To: PC800 Subject: ARCHIVE INDEX LISTS Hello! Can anyone out there help me with accessing the archives? I believe that you must first get an index which lists the file names. However, in order to do this, one must know the name of the index. Apparently, there are multiple indexes. How is the index name found? I've tried using keywords for a name, e.g., "oil", "horn", etc., but it doesn't work. Obviously, I'm new at this. Any help is appreciated. Richard Hardy ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 08:48 -0800 From: ESTES@polar.eielson.af.mil (CORY) To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Cc: Joni11110@aol.com Subject: RE: RE: PC800 Stealth Harrison wrote: >Perhaps you can install a chaff(?) system that throws out little bits of >tin foil when you encounter a radar signal ;-). Great idea!!!! Actually, I'd already thought of it. My current place of employment (?) is an F-16 fighter base, and figure I could get some pointers on how to set the system up from some of the wrench twisters I know. If I go that route, though, I might just as well hang on some "PC-to-fuzz" missiles. Then, of course, I run into a guidance problem. If I choose to go w/ wire-guided, then I run the risk of running afoul of the wire myself. If I go w/ a heat-seeking system I run the risk of unintentional damage to assorted Kenworths, Peterbuilts, and the like. I think that getting a ticket would be better than getting the Teamsters Union pissed at me. (Still haven't found Hoffa, have they?) I also considered the type w/ a small TV camera in the nose, but was advised I'd have to give up the fuel gauge to mount the monitor into the dash. Besides, if I follow good riding practices and look where I want to go, I could find myself following the missile right into the radar gun as I watch the monitor. I also considered just having the missiles not detach from the bike and use them to boost me, very quickly, out of the county. After watching the movie Apollo 13, though I'm not sure I want to risk that. (Can you imagine attempting to turn a PC air filter into a carbon dioxide scrubber? Besides, I don't know if Forrest Gump would be a good riding buddy. And that's all I've got to say about that.) After due consideration, keeping in mind that such actions would deeply hurt the feelings of a friend of mine who is in the enforcement business, I've dropped the missile concept. The chaff bundles would probably just cause me to get a ticket for littering in addition to speeding. I guess I'll have to continue to live life on the edge. HOWEVER, if someone could tell me where I could get come spray-on rubber coating, I could cover the thing with rubber so that any radar impulses would just be absorbed ......... TURE STEALTH!!!!! Later, I've got to give this some consideration.......... Cory From owner-pc800 Thu Dec 28 13:12:52 1995 ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: 28 Dec 95 14:11:31 EST From: Steve Schibuola <73414.466@compuserve.com> To: PC800 Mailing List Subject: PC800 Problems! Hans Looman wrote: > If you park the bike you should try to find out in which direction it starts to fall. It seems like the forces all work their way towards Japan. Maybe in Japan the bike will always stay up on its two wheels. That certainly explains why the Honda engineers never noticed the problem until way too late. Imagine their chagrin at the first North American unveiling! >By the way, can you explain why the PC has only ONE battery and still TWO wheels? I just looked this morning, and, by golly, YOU'RE RIGHT! What were they THINKING!!?? I'll add this to the class-action suit. This PC sure is turning out to be one problem-riddled bike! ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Thu, 28 Dec 95 20:26:13 UT From: "Charter Member" To: "PC800 Mailing List" Subject: Getting the wife to Ride This letter goes out to all the all of us that had similar time getting our spouse interested in riding. This letter is written to Ray.... Hi Ray, Sure is a small world. I'm glad your PC800 went to a good home. I was real close to buying your bike. I guess it worked out for the best for both of us. I was in a similar situation as you regarding getting the wife interested in riding. I was kind of sneaky about how I got her to ride. What I did was, I brought her with me to buy the bike. She helped me decide what I wanted even though I new what I wanted. I showed her different bikes and I purposely picked stuff I knew she would not go for (i.e. Racing bikes etc.) . Then I had her pick out "OUR" helmets so we could ride together. She is looking over my shoulder as I write this and laughing. Still she was not getting into it, but ever so slightly I was winning her over. We bought the matching helmets and then what go her over the edge was that I invited to go to breakfast on A1A (for you folks out of state, it's a road along the ocean where all the million dollar plus homes are on one side and the ocean is on the other. We went to Boston's (by the ocean) and had a nice slow ride and had a great meal. I kept it short and slow. I did this a few times and trained her into thinking going out and having a nice breakfast equaled getting on the bike. Now if I have a day off and the weather is nice she wakes up and says. Honey do you want to "RIDE" to "XYZ" restaurant and get some breakfast? Now as long as food is involved or if we know the place we are going to is going to be hard to park, we take the motorcycle. There is no greater joy that finding a nice parking space by the entrance to a outdoor Art show local city event. I am plan on attending Bike week next year in Daytona if anyone is going. The wife is going but she is going to follow me in the car (I don't blame her). It's a long drive. Ray please give me a call if ever you want to go for a ride. My number is (407) 964-6562. I did brave it today and put on a leather jacket and rode a few miles. (this goes out to all the Northerners to say that not all Floridians are wimps. Yes it was 60 degrees but I threw caution to the wind). Sure was cold!!!! :) I had a funny thing happen to me when I met a Harley rider the other day. I was getting off the interstate and we both stopped at a red light together. He looked at my bike and said "Pretty cool bike dude, I looks like a Camry cut down the middle and two wheels taken off. No sooner than he said that, his bike konked out and he could not fire it back up. I offered to take him to a pay phone after he tried to kick start in 50 times. He was so out of breath he could almost not stand up. I gave him a ride to a phone and he just kept telling me how nice my bike rode and how quiet it was. He even asked if he could just give it a spin in the parking lot to see how it felt. To make a long story short. He said he was real impressed and said from now on he would wave to any PC800 he saw. That's saying a lot from a harley rider. Ride safe, Richard BetaTester@msn.com I ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 13:01:27 -0800 (PST) From: Johan Lai To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Subject: Re: Getting the wife to Ride On Thu, 28 Dec 1995, Charter Member wrote: > To make a long story short. He said he was real impressed and said from now on > he would wave to any PC800 he saw. That's saying a lot from a harley rider. > > Ride safe, > > Richard > BetaTester@msn.com You're right, that does say a lot. When I first started riding (Honda MB5, remember those?), I was naive and waved at everyone. After I moved up to a Yamaha Seca 400 then it dawned on me that Harley's never wave back. It's still true to this day. I've only gotten maybe one greeting from a hog this year. One time I tried to buy a battery from a Harley shop (they were closer than the Honda dealer), they told me they don't "do Hondas". I said "but aren't all cycle batteries 12V nowadays?" The man said, "ya don't understand, we don't _do_ Hondas." ========================================================================= Johan Lai UUCP Mail: None Unix Systems Admin Internet Mail: jlai@filenet.com Engineering Services Snail Mail: 3565 Harbor Boulevard FileNet Corporation Costa Mesa, CA 92626 "System Administration: It's a dirty job, somebody said I had to do it." ========================================================================= ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** To: pc800@hpc.uh.edu Subject: Re: ARCHIVE INDEX LISTS Date: Thu, 28 Dec 1995 15:01:01 -0600 From: Jason L Tibbitts III >>>>> "RH" == "Richard A Hardy" writes: RH> Hello! Can anyone out there help me with accessing the archives? I RH> believe that you must first get an index which lists the file names. RH> However, in order to do this, one must know the name of the index. You're making it too complicated. You must supply the name of the mailing list you want the index for; I serve several lists from one machine. Send the command index pc800 to majordomo@hpc.uh.edu. You will get back a message like this: >>>> index pc800 total 4282 -rw-rw-r-- 1 daemon lists 79519 Jun 30 1994 pc800.9406 -rw-rw-r-- 1 daemon lists 107058 Jul 29 1994 pc800.9407 -rw-rw-r-- 1 daemon lists 42339 Aug 31 1994 pc800.9408 -rw-rw-r-- 1 daemon lists 32641 Sep 29 1994 pc800.9409 -rw-rw-r-- 1 daemon lists 106168 Oct 31 1994 pc800.9410 -rw-rw-r-- 1 daemon lists 103407 Nov 29 1994 pc800.9411 -rw-rw-r-- 1 daemon lists 28143 Dec 24 1994 pc800.9412 ^^^^^^^^^^ The last piece of each line is the filename; I have marked one with carets on the last line. Now send the command get pc800 pc800.9412 which will get the list archives from December, 1994. RH> I've tried using keywords for a name, e.g., "oil", "horn", etc., but it RH> doesn't work. I would like to do something like this, where things are indexed by subject, and in fact have the tools to do so. Unfortunately if you're forced to use the email interface for getting the list archives you don't have web access or FTP so you'd be left out. - J< ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 10:02:08 -0500 From: DANCOTE@aol.com To: pc800@sina.hpc.uh.edu Subject: Re: ARCHIVE INDEX LISTS In a message dated 95-12-28 16:08:58 EST, you write: >Unfortunately if you're >forced to use the email interface for getting the list archives you don't >have web access or FTP so you'd be left out. Please educate me on how to view/retrieve the archives with web access and FTP. We newbies have a lot to learn. Thanx Dan ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** To: pc800@hpc.uh.edu Subject: Re: ARCHIVE INDEX LISTS Date: Fri, 29 Dec 1995 15:49:32 -0600 From: Jason L Tibbitts III >>>>> "D" == DANCOTE writes: D> In a message dated 95-12-28 16:08:58 EST, you write: >> Unfortunately if you're forced to use the email interface for getting >> the list archives you don't have web access or FTP so you'd be left out. D> Please educate me on how to view/retrieve the archives with web access D> and FTP. Anonymous FTP from ftp.hpc.uh.edu in /pub/pc800/list-archive, or open in your web browser. - J< ********** MESSAGE SEPARATOR ********** Date: Mon, 01 Jan 1996 00:24:16 -0500 From: Jeff Leech To: PC 800 User Group Subject: New Subscriber/Luggage Rack? Hi, Thought I'd do the usual intro. Jeff Leech Dayton, OH jleech@erinet.com '94 Pacific Coast w/23,000 miles Purchased New Oct 1993 Stock Bike I also have a question to ask. Has anyone seen any company that produces a luggage rack for the Pacific Coast. I would like to add a trunk on the rear ( I know, why would I need the extra space?). I could just strap it to the passenger seat, (most of my travels are solo), but it would be nice to have the trunk mounted on a fixed rack. I have seen a '91 with a neat little rack fashioned to attach to a little spoiler on the trunk back. If anyone has any info, it would be great. Jeff '94 Pacific Coast